Honoring Parents, and other commands like do not divorce, etc. were written in the absence of abuse, or more accurately stated, the absence of evil. God is love and He is good, therefore, what He has to say pertains to those who are basically good and love and do not have the intention or desire to cause hurt & do evil. There is a huge world of difference between loving, imperfect and toxic narcissistic evil people. Those who do not understand the difference between imperfect and evil are either people who only had imperfect, not truly evil parents, or those (like I use to be) who really do have evil parents, yet are in a self-protecting, excuse making, denial state of mind (i.e.,"she can't help herself, not her fault, she had a bad childhood, she has a mental illness", etc.). The alternative, the truth, that our parent actually purposefully chooses to hurt us seems so unimaginable & too painful to accept that we grasp at any popular excuse that we can find to ease our minds & hearts, so that we can sleep at night. A parent who purposefully chooses to hurt their own child goes against basic nature to protect one's offspring. It is counterproductive to say the least. It is almost too much for the human soul to bare that your own parent, especially the woman who gave birth to you could be truly unremorseful, heartless, toxic, & evil.
(I have added the following paragraph to the original post in order to demonstrate the difference between the imperfect and evil parent).
Imagine two single women who are also single parents who decide to make money buy selling their bodies. Both choose to take drugs to numb themselves from the horrible life they chose. The imperfect parent eventually realizes that the life she has is damaging to herself and her children, in time stops her bad choices, is remorseful, asks forgiveness from her children & others who she has hurt, and leads a productive honorable life. The evil parent makes excuses for her life and is calloused to how her terrible choices hurt her children, never takes responsibility, blames her children for having to live the life of a drug addict & prostitute, verbally, emotionally & physically abuses her children and allows others to do the same, and not only sells herself, but her children as well to the highest bidder. The imperfect parent would protect her child if ever threatened and lay down her life for her child, in contrast to the evil parent who will lay down her child's life/feelings for her own gain. The imperfect parent is proud when her child succeeds and the evil parent is jealous & threatened by her child's successes and tries to sabotage her child's attempt at a better life. The imperfect parent brags about her child's accomplishments opposed to the evil parent's desire to put down or take away from her child especially when others are around, so that the evil parent looks better/smarter/more successful/talented than the child. The imperfect parent wants to put the spot light on and praise her child where the evil parent is extremely jealous & threatened by public praise/attention towards her child and will do what ever she can to take the attention away by causing some sort of a distraction (something that needs to be taken care of right away that only her child must do at this very moment, so that her child is physically taken away from the public attention, or she simply changes the focus to her and away from her child, or changes the the topic of discussion altogether). The imperfect parent can eventually admit when she has been wrong, be remorseful, apologize and ask forgiveness, and the evil parent is never wrong about anything & the expert at all things, and will triangulate and gaslight you to the point that you feel like you are the crazy one because your parent could never be so evil -- or could she? The imperfect parent cherishes her child where the evil parent abuses and uses her child and truly finds pleasure in her child's emotional/physical pain. The imperfect parent hates to see her child suffer in any way and the evil parent feels her best when you are at your worst. An evil parent you will know, when she treats you as her foe (see Sept. 09 post, Still A Work In Progress, original poem). If anyone else has an example to show the difference between an imperfect parent and toxic evil parent, please leave in the comments section.
God knows that we are imperfect and that there are those who choose to do abusive things that they later deeply regret. The key difference between imperfect and evil is the Remorseful Heart. The imperfect person truly has a remorseful heart which his/her changed behavior demonstrates and the evil person has a stone cold heart that lacks remorse and tries to blame others instead of taking full responsibility. Those of us who had a truly evil abusive parent know the difference between imperfect and evil and can understand the distinction between them. I believe that these commands were written in regards to loving & imperfect relationships and do not apply to abusive evil ones. God's love for us is unconditional; however, having a relationship with Him in Heaven is not. John 3:16 For God so loved the Earth that He gave His only son, that whoever believes in Him (Jesus) should not perish, but have ever lasting life. Thus whoever does not accept Jesus as his/her personal Savior will not have ever lasting life. God does put conditions/requirements on things. All paths do not lead to Heaven & God. Therefore, if a parent is to be honored, then s/he must act honorable and not abusive & evil. Does that mean that a parent has to be perfect? No of course not. This is where forgiveness comes into play. When a parent is truly remorseful, then a child can forgive a parent who changes. However, if a parent is not remorseful and sees no need to change a child is not forced/required/doomed/condemned to have an abusive, toxic relationship with an evil person that happens to be her parent. Matthew 10:34-39; tells us to separate from our parent and others. It says that Christ came to bring division. Surely separating from an abusive parent as well as an abusive spouse is what God has in mind here. God's love is perfect. In His love there is no abuse. His Love is so Amazing! Do you really think that a perfect loving parent would want His child to be put into harms way over and over again? No of course He wouldn't.
Yes, I know, God did put Jesus in harms way, because it was Jesus' destiny. Jesus suffered for the sins of the world because He is the Savior -- not us. Jesus was emotionally & physically slaughtered for sinners, so we don't have to be. It is not our destiny, nor our responsibility to save our evil parents, spouse, family members or friends. Not even God can/will save an evil person who is unwilling to change--so why do some people think or act like they are better than God? Why do they think they can do something that God will not do? God never tells us to lay our life down for an evil/toxic person. In fact He tells us to stay away & rebuke evil. Imagine your beautiful little daughter comes home from school with tears in her eyes. She tells you how her "friend" at school has been verbally & physically abusive towards her. You comfort her and explain to her that it wasn't her fault that this "friend" is abusive and that some people choose to be mean & do evil things which makes them our enemy and not our friend anymore. There are many scriptures that tell us to identify something as either good or bad and take the appropriate actions (read articles Are They Good or Bad? They Get Worse Not Better With Time, and By Their Fruits You Will Know Them). After numerous failed principal/parental interventions the abusive child continues to be a threat to your daughter. This enemy of your child has no remorse and no motivation to change her abusive evil ways. This mean abusive person may say everything you want & need to hear (which implies insight & remorse), but her abusive behavior never truly changes -- so what do you do? How many times must your child be slapped in the face before you have her end this toxic abusive relationship with the mean girl? When does your daughter get to fight back and protect herself from this enemy's attacks, do you condemn her to a life of doormat and personal punching bag? Of course you don't. You have your Beautiful Daughter end the abusive relationship with the mean girl ASAP (As Soon As Possible). You want to protect your child from evil doers at all costs -- it is a parental instinct that God created us to use. God is the perfect loving parent. We are created in His image and He wants to protect His children from evil just like we want to protect our children from evil, toxic, abusive people. Therefore, if God wants to protect His children from evil, and is no respecter of person, then why do some people believe that God wants us to honor evil abusive parents? God is perfect and would not contradict Himself, by saying rebuke evil at one time and honor it at another. Homework assignment, research the word reprobate in the Bible. I just discovered that you will have to use the old King James version, because the others have left it out. At least this is what I just found out after going to the Biblegateway.com -- the word reprobate literally got lost in translation! Read all scriptures you can find on it read the old King James version and switch it with another version to compare the difference.
- Jeremiah 6:30
Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
Jeremiah 6:29-30 (in Context) Jeremiah 6 (Whole Chapter) - Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:27-29 (in Context) Romans 1 (Whole Chapter) - 2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye bereprobates?
2 Corinthians 13:4-6 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter) - 2 Corinthians 13:6
But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
2 Corinthians 13:5-7 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter) - 2 Corinthians 13:7
Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2 Corinthians 13:6-8 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter) - 2 Timothy 3:8
Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Timothy 3:7-9 (in Context) 2 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter) - Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Titus 1:15-16 (in Context) Titus 1 (Whole Chapter)
Reprobate is a new word that I learned about last year thanks to the Luke 17:3 Ministries. Google reprobate, I just did. Basically reprobates are people without moral scruples/a conscious. That is why they continue to say & do abusive, evil things. Reprobates are destined to eternal damnation; "God reprobated the unrepenting sinner". No where have I found that reprobates/evil people are infertile, thus it is logical that reprobates/evil people have children. What would God have us do with the reprobate parent? Remember, in Matthew 10:34-39; God says to separate from a parent--surely this is an abusive, toxic reprobate parent that He is referring to. Notice this scripture is from the New Testiment? It is very simple, God wants us to stay away from evil. Not have extremely low contact with it -- stay away from it. So what about the commandment to Honor Thy Mother & Father?
Children of Evil Parents are exempt from honoring evil parents in the traditional way that our society thinks about honoring, because we are to honor & respect good imperfect parents and rebuke evil & evil parents do not have an exemption from this rule. Just because they are someone's parent doesn't mean they get away with being evil towards their children &/or other people. There is great news! We can honor them in different ways.
How do we honor abusive, evil, reprobate, toxic parents?
We honor them by not returning the abuse that they gave to us.
We honor them by not wanting to destroy their lives, but to improve it/change it/transform it through Christ.
We honor them by praying for their salvation and for their break though.
We honor them by stop trying to save them, or change them, that it is Christ's job.
We honor them by letting go and letting God work a miracle.
We honor them by realizing that our enabling behavior & failure to give the ultimate consequence of no contact is getting in God's way.
We honor them by not enabling them to continue their abuse with us or with others.
We honor them by insisting that they get the professional help that they need, before they have anymore contact with us & our family members.
We honor them by remaining in a No Contact status and not being tempted to break it "for the kids sake" during birthday, holidays, or any other special occasion for this would send a mixed message & defeat the purpose of No Contact.
We honor them by giving them clear boundaries and consequences if they are not remorseful and repent/turn from/change/end their abusive behavior, OR we will have nothing to do with them.
We honor them by reversing the curse, in that we will not allow their abusive legacy to continue to our children.
We honor them by returning honor to the family's reputation & creating an awesome legacy for future generations.
Do you know another way we can honor our evil parents?
Share it with us & leave it on the comments section.
Just like there are two different kinds of families, loving/imperfect families and abusive/toxic families, there are two different kinds of honoring, honoring the loving parent and honoring the abusive one (as mentioned above). Both kinds of honoring parents should be equally respected because they come from love. When we honor abusive, evil, toxic, reprobate parents, as mentioned above, we are in fact fulfilling this commandment and need not feel any guilt that we can not do the other kind of honoring-it was not our choice to make. God blessed us with free will and it was our parents choice to be loving or abusive, therefore that places them in one category of honoring or another. Just as God says, I have put life (love/good) and death (hate/evil) before you -- choose life/love! Life/love is a choice and if we don't choose it then we get the natural consequence of our selection which is death. Death of a relationship with God and with others. God can not make people choose life/love and neither can we. The full responsibility of the death of a relationship lies on the abusive, evil, toxic, reprobate parent and no one else. A person should not be made to feel less of a Christian because she can not honor her evil parent in the exact same way a person who had a loving or imperfect parent. God says to rebuke evil--not honor it! We need to stop digging into one another, as the enemy would have us do, and start digging into scripture and stop ignoring what God says about people who are evil with a cold calloused unremorseful/unrepentful heart.
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Interesting and thought provoking. I have always felt a bit bad (unchristian) about not honoring an abusive parent and have been told by other relatives "I don't appreciate what I do get" (ie. someone who wants control to my detriment via financial maniuplation).
ReplyDeleteThe Mathew 10:34-39 verse, I believe is typically referenced at weddings, as a necessity/act prior to clinging to each other in marriage.
I'm wondering if you have found any other points in the bible which may refer to abuse or abusive parents? I would think matters of abuse or evil may be found in slavery parables from the Old Testament. I'm not an expert but I do know translation is key to meaning, and some things are intentionally left out in the more modern versions.
Certainly if there is a word for truly evil people (reprobate), there is going to be further discussion and advice on dealing with such unremorsefully abusive people.
Make yourself necessary to someone--which scripture is this from?
ReplyDeleteOh yes the financial manipulation. My egg donor could never grasp the concept that a person will always need a mother, no matter how old she gets (i.e., emotional support) because she could only see her role as one who manipulated with money or material goods. When my sister and I became financially independent she could no longer manipulate or "relate" to us, and made comments such as "she doesn't need me anymore". It was spelled out several times what we needed from her is love, support, understanding, validation, etc., but this is something that she is not willing to do because in order to do these things and have a healthy relationship both people must be treated as equals. In all loving relationships there must be some degree of compromise & sacrifice which again she was unwilling to do. In loving relationships, people highly value one another and do not view others as interchangeable & replaceable. About the financial manipulation--God's word is great, He says that the borrower is a slave to the lender. Being a slave to a Narcissistic parent (nparent), where there are ALWAYS strings (chains) attached for future manipulation is a curse not a blessing. There is no winning with a Nparent-you can not thank them enough. Best to break that bond and watch the parent attack you rather than praise you for your new found independence. The attack comes because the Nparent is loosing his/her control over you which demonstrates that you are not a person to be loved, but rather an object to be used.
I have never heard the Matthew 10:34-39 verse used at a wedding. I have heard verses like, 1 Corinthians 13:4-5, the love verses
Mark 10:7-9
7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh’;[a] so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Matthew 19:4-6 (New King James Version)
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Separating (one's loyalty/priority) from loving parents due to a union of marriage is completely different than separating from toxic, narcissistic, evil reprobate parents due to abuse. When I read Matthew 10:34-39, the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart about my freedom from abuse, that it would be a battle, and that I would have to defend my position of No Contact. A Sword of Separation (as my Bible titles these verses) is putting a permanent end to an abusive relationship where the other scriptures speak of a re-prioritizing one's spouse over one's parents due to a new loving relationship/transformation (and the two shall become one) and in this situation a person is not ending a relationship with a loving parent, she is just re-prioritizing it. I see God speaking to us about two different types of parental separation, one that calls for an end due to abuse and one that calls for a change due to a blessed union. As we have discovered, much gets lost in translation, this is why I like to compare different translations. The newer versions are easier to understand, but the older ones are more accurate (e.g., reprobate only found in King James version).
Actually, the older translations, especially the King James, are not "more accurate". (The King James is one of the least accurate.) It isn't the age of the translation, but the process used in translation (such as whether or not they began with the earliest known copies of the original language source texts or are simply translating previous translations) that makes it accurate. The simpler translations have to sacrifice accuracy for clarity while translations such as the Amplified sacrifice readability for more accuracy. The New American Standard or New Revised Standard versions are more accurate and balanced English translations than most others.
DeleteHello I. Cable, there is much debate about the accuracy of different translations. For this reason (and others) before I read the Bible I ask that the Holy Spirit be with me to help me discern, and better understand what GOD is expressing through the Holy Word.
DeletePerhaps I could have been more clear myself above that in regards to Reprobates I find that the King James version is much more accurate. The newer versions that use the word "unrepentant sinner" is not as accurate as the term Reprobate.
(continue from above post)
ReplyDeleteI do not know any scriptures that speak about abusive parents, however, if I recall correctly Jesus spoke about if a person should cause a child to stumble (sin), or hurt the child it would be better if that person was not born--if someone finds the actual scripture/s, please share it with us.
Shooting Star your question has inspired me, and I came across
1 Kings 3:16-28 (New King James Version)--Solomon’s Wise Judgment. It is interesting to read this story in the different versions. The kings dilemma, Who is the true loving parent? How did the king discover which woman was the real loving Mom? If your bio-mom was in that same situation which woman would she most likely be? I heard my entire life how much my egg donor sacrificed for her children, and all she was forced to have to give up, the opportunities she missed out on, and the things she could have accomplished and the person she could have become (famous artist/writer/wealthy woman) if it wasn't for us kids. Recall this is the same woman who AFTER knowing that her monster of a brother-in-law repeatedly hurt her daughter, she STILL continued to literally break bread with him at HIS house on SEVERAL different occasions & times (wasn't just a one time mistake). So what did she really have to give up -- nothing. Did she have my best interest at heart when she ate with the monster who hurt her child? A loving parent gives up things that she wants when it is in the best interest of her child and mine couldn't even give up a dinner invitation! She has no problem hurting others, if it means there is something in it for her. She values a free meal over the feelings of her daughter. She would rather hurt me by accepting the invitation than to possibly disappoint others by turning it down and confronting the monster & his enablers. She said she could either hurt her sister (who she barely had contact with) or her daughter, and of course she chose to do things that she KNEW would hurt me. This person is no Mom, she is an evil person who will sacrifice others for her own gain. If you have abusive, toxic parents where ever the Bible speaks of evil or evil doers, etc., it is referring to them, and what ever the Bible says to do with evil people then you will know what to do with your evil parent/s.
Evil is as Evil does. Rebuke evil.
I read your article with interest. I struggle with this issue. The scripture reference you are looking for about causing a child to stumble (sin) is:
ReplyDeleteBut whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a milstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of teh sea.
Matthew 18:6 KJV
Similar verses are also recorded in Mark 9:42 and Luke 17:1,2.
A couple of verses regarding eveil:
Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men.
Proverbs 4:14 KJV (it should be noted that men appears in italics indicating that the wrd was added by the translators.)
Turn not tot eh right hand n or to the left: remove thy foot from evil.
Proverbs 4:27 KJV
I Thessalonians 5:18 says, In everything give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Yahoshua' (Jesus) concerning you.
I struggled with this verse for a long time. How could I be thankful for the abuse in my life. Then one day I thanked God for the abuse, not that I was some sort of masakist or wanted to go back for more abuse or wished that life on anyone else, but I was thankful for the abuse becasue of who I had become as a result of the abuse. I had a need for God as a child. I don't think I would have survived childhood without God. I don't know if I would ahve felt that need had I been in a loving/healthy family. As an adult that relationship with God has been a great advantage to me in dealing with life's struggles not to mention the here after. I also developed a heart for the underdog. I don't know that I would have even noticed those less fortunite than myself had my life been quasi-normal let alone cared about them. So while I would never wish my life on anyone, it is what it is and I am thankful.
My dad will be 90 in December. I don't want any regrets when he dies. I have not had contact with him in many, many years. He has not changed. I think often about writing him a letter or sending a card acknowledging his birthday. When I think about what I would say and his response I just don't see a positive outcome so never follow through. I also think about his funeral. I always thought I wouldn't attend. How can I sit there listening to a bunch of nice stuff and how he is saved (I've never been to a funeral where they said the opposite)but the command to honor has been on my mind a lot and I wonder if not attneding whould be a dishonor. We honor our parents because God gave us life through them and to honor them is to honor God. I do not want to bring dishonor to God by not attending my dad's funeral. My concern is what relatives will think if I do not attend. I am not concerned about what they think for myself but they know I profess to be a believer and I don't want my lack of attendance to reflect negatively on God through my witness.
Thank you Lori for the Scriptures. Reprobate/Narcissistic parents do offend their children when they devalue & abuse them. And as God has said, it would be better if they were drowned in the depth of the sea. Doesn't sound like someone He would want us to honor.
ReplyDeleteWhat helped me was recognizing that my Nparents were not merely sick disordered people, but beings who lack (true) empathy & remorse and actually enjoyed when others were hurting which makes them evil. Accepting that your own parents are evil is not easy, but when you do things become clearer because God tells us to reject evil not honor it. That is the difference betw. how my Nsibs see the Momster and how I see her. They see a sick person who has no control over her hurtful behavior, because accepting that she is truly evil is to scary and painful for them. These evil parents do have control over their behavior because they choose just who and when they abuse.
As scripture says, God choose YOU before the foundations of the Earth. He knew YOU before you were born. He created YOU with all your awesome attributes and gifts (empathy for others, fighting for the under dog, kind heart, etc). You are all these wonderful things BECAUSE He created you that way and He has a destiny/purpose for your life. We have these gifts/strengths not because of the abuse we endured, but in spite of it. It was our destiny to be who we are. God began a great work in us and He will be faithful to finish it regardless of the KoN we were born into. Abusers do the will of the devil to detour us from our destiny and purpose in life. I can not, I will not give them credit for doing their evil acts. I know God as a loving Parent and as a loving Parent you would want to protect your children from abuse. I would not wish to put my child in harms way, because "that which does not kill her will make her stronger". She is strong BECAUSE who her parent is (God) and not because she survived evil. Although what the enemy meant for our destruction God will use to our blessing, but abuse was (never) apart of our loving perfect holy God's plan.
We must remember the spirit in which the Bible was written. It was written through the relationship of the author and the Holy Spirit. Holy being the absent of evil. Thus the commandments & scriptures are in regards to good not evil people/parents. A loving Holy God would not tell His children to honor evil and abusive parents are evil. Some say that abusive parents/people are humans acting evil, I say that they are evil acting human.
In regards to our abusive childhoods we can be very thankful that God was with us during the abuse. That His heart was breaking and that He felt our pain, in addition to the pain of seeing one of His children abusing another one of children. As children of abuse, we can heal from it, but the abusers, most of them can not heal and remain evil and thus suffer eternal damnation. Our suffering ends where theirs will last forever, and in that I feel pity for them that they did not choose to change and enjoyed being evil while they were here on Earth. They had another choice. They could have had remorse, they could have asked Jesus to change them. They could have chosen a Life spent loving others, instead of hurting others. Those who choose to reciprocate love, their relationships are rewarding, fruitful and full of life where the toxic relationships are full of pain, heart ache & death (thus the death of a relationship when we go NC). God tells us to choose Life and to be a blessing to others. When toxic/evil people curse others they are really cursing themselves. Which brings me to the funeral of an abusive/evil parent...
(continue from above post to Lori).
ReplyDeleteI asked myself, when the time comes will I attend the Momster's funeral? I definitely will not attend the Monster Dad's. He has been out of my life for years and there is only a bio. connection. With enough time passing I will most likely feel the same towards the Momster. For me, attending the Momster's funeral would be pointless and send mixed messages to everyone, my D,my H, my Nsibs & their children, and myself. I could not stomach the lies, as you said, no one speaks ill of the dead, even when the dead has spent his/her entire life hurting others. So what would be worse attending or not attending? Will I regret my decision? No, because I am honoring myself as well as others by remaining truthful to the situation and not pretending that it is/was something it was not. Now when the funeral is over, and everyone has left, maybe a day later, I might go to the Momster's grave sight so that I could tell her things I never got to while she was alive. How the only regret I have is that she choose to be a toxic person/mother her entire life when some where along her life she could have chosen differently and God would have helped me forgive her and we could have spent the rest of her life bringing joy to one another. You know that saying, the good die young. Isn't interesting that many abusive people live for a long time. It is like God is trying to give them every chance in this world to change before it is too late.
Lori please do not do what others want, me included : )
Speak w/Jesus and He will tell you what will bring you peace. Anytime we find ourself defending our choices to other family & friends we are devaluing self. If they truly love us and know us then they will understand that we are not choosing to do things in order to hurt others. I do not believe by not attending you are dishonoring anyone. Dishonoring come from purposely hurting others which is not your agenda or intent. By not attending you are not trying to hurt your toxic parent or anyone else, you are trying to protect yourself from a very painful situation and being reminded that you were not loved by this deceased person. That will be obvious to anyone who truly knows you and has your best interest at heart. It is not your job to explain the obvious to others who will never get it. If other people want to label it as dishonor that is (their) problem NOT yours. You being a great witness does not depend on whether or not you attend your toxic parent's funeral. Your entire life is a witness, not just one decision. You can explain to others that your personal relationship w/Jesus has given you peace to live an authentic life and not to pretend that your relationship w/your toxic parents was something it was not. It is your purpose in life to live in truth and not lies. If you were witnessing to me I would consider what you did with the other aspects of your life. I would consider ALL the evidence, your love for others, being accountable, trustworthy, fruits of the spirit, being there for me when I needed you in regards to other situations. What I have to remind others and myself is that I am a Christian not Christ. It is not my role to be anyone's personal Savior. Jesus bared this weight so we don't have to in regards to those we are a living witness. We are to point to the Savior not be the Savior -- we are so NOT qualified for that position.
(continued from previous post to Lori).
ReplyDeleteYou will never make 100% of the people 100% happy 100% of the time. If you attend, someone might say, you are not being authentic and doubt the abuse you endured, because if the abuse were true why would you attend and show respect to someone who was so abusive towards you (this happened to me when I attended a family event where my attacker attended), and if you don't attend some might say you are not being a "good enough" Christian by loving your enemy. You can not please everyone.
What will bring you peace? God knows your heart and what you have endured and He would not hold it against you, so no one else should either. One thing that my personal relationship w/Jesus has taught me is to not judge or condemn others for their choices on matters such as these.
May you find peace and keep me posted in what you decide to do.
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ReplyDeleteHello FinallyFree,
ReplyDeleteWe have much in common w/a Momster who manipulates her children, so that she can Divide & Conquer. Their agendas are to get us fighting w/each other so that they don't realize where the toxic poison is coming from. Thing is you know EXACTLY where the poison is coming from don't you. Our NM's both are the Super-Sized variety, so much so that they actually fall into the Psychopath category in that they knowingly and willingly place their children in harms way, not to mention that they feel at their best when we are at our worst. You have great instincts about the damage the Momster is causing your D. Is the damage permeant? Only a ph.D who has meet her in person to do a complete assessment could say for sure. I don't believe the damage is permanent, but it does deserve attention. I am sure your instinct is telling you that as well. Listen to it. Counseling is always a good thing. Better to get it and not need it then to need it and not get it.
Now if the Momster was not your mom & lets say a teacher, or the parent of one of your child's friends and when your child came back from visiting them she has nightmares and becomes off balance, What would you do? You wouldn't think twice about keeping you child safe from other harmful people right. Growing up in the KoN you & I have had decades to become desensitized to the toxic, harmful behavior of our Momsters, but our children have not, and it is great that they have not. Our children are NOT "too sensitive" we are not sensitive enough. Your In-Laws sound like good people from what you have said, but the Momster is a clear danger to your child. I wish she could be "good enough" for your children, but she is not & can not due to the level of her pathology. She is a clear threat to their well being and your''s & your H's.
As a Mom one of our goals for our children is for them to have healthy relationships that reciprocate love and do not cause harm to them. We want them to have the ability to discern what is healthy and what is not, and what is straight out toxic, harmful & dangereous. If this is our goal, then we can not give mixed messages by the people we allow into our lives and theirs. Prolonged expose to a Momster or a GrandMomster will cause damage, How long that damage last depends on the duration of the toxic relationship. Your children are watching the interaction between you and your NM, they see all the turmoil & chaos and although you may point out that her behavior is wrong it will be viewed by them as something they can expect to deal w/in their future relationships because their own Mom had to deal with it. You are blessed to have In-Laws that can model healthy relationships. Focus on what you have and not what you don't have (I have to remind myself of that from time to time). It does not make you a bad person to do what is best for you and your children if that means cutting off toxic ties to pathological people. Your loyalty does not lie w/the Momster, but with your own Family of Creation. Have you thought about NC w/the Momster? It does not have to be a permanent decision. Try it out for a year, see how things go, are you and your children better for going NC? A year from now you can decide whether or not you want to renew another of NC or not. The point is you have options. Let me tell you the holidays w/out a Momster around are awesome, you can actually enjoy them. Keep me posted on what you decide to do! Blessings to You.
This is wonderfully put.
ReplyDeleteI struggle with this issue and have for some time. I come from a religious Jewish family so I'm not familiar with some of the Christian references, though obviously the commandments are the same.
The biggest difference - in this context - might be a struggle for Christians, Jews, and any anybody else who's lived with abusive narcissistic parents; it's the forgiveness part. Christianity as a religion is more forgiving; Judaism less so.
In any event, my parents hit a new low that finally convinced me I had to just cut them off completely; it's been a long time now. They lie to others about what the final straw was but thankfully enough people saw it there's no ambiguity.
As time's gone on I realize how poison the damage was. Constant put-down's, having every achievement ignored or belittled, being screamed at regularly, double-standards imposed on me than on my other siblings, reminders at every opportunity that I came last (behind strangers, pets, and even DVR'd re-run's of TV shows), overt attacks if I dared to disagree, being ignored until something was needed then, if I was busy, having my child used as a wedge to get their way.
The worst was being told that's the way the world works and I should accept it, effectively dismantling my guard for others engaged in their own bad behaviors, and creating a self-defeating cycle where the strong people saw (past-tense) as weak, and predators quickly recognized a mark. The life-long damage a toxic parent can do is astronomical.
OK - just wanted to let you know, on Christmas Day, that we may not share the same religion but we do share the same beliefs. Your essay is enlightening, well written, and inspirational. Thank you.
Shalom Cousin Micheal. We do have much in common. It was awesome that you wrote your post on Christmas. I thank you for that kind & compassionate gift.
ReplyDeleteForgiveness is a tough one in regards to Nparents. What I have learned is that Forgiveness does not mean continued relationship if the offender is not remorseful & does not repent/change their hurtful ways. Have you read this post?
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/07/closure-redefine-it-to-find-it.html
Micheal I am thrilled to hear that you are NC w/the Nparent/s and that their Smear Campaign fell on death ears. Those who truly love you, know you and will not accept lies about you. Everything you wrote about your childhood, I too endured. I believe that you can not heal from wounds as long as the abuser is still attacking and creating further damage. It is great that you are NC, from your pic it looks like you are a loving Father and you are teaching your Child a very valuable Life Lesson that you do not let Toxic People abuse you & you don't have to have contact with them even if they are biologically related to you.
"The worst was being told that's the way the world works and I should accept it" -- I had the same evil programming of lies. That is the N's perception isn't it. The world according to N. Reality is not what it is, it is only what the N says it is. I was told I was too sensitive and from the perspective of an evil N who lacks empathy & a heart I was too sensitive for "her" to relate to or connect with. To heal from the KoN one must realize an essential Truth that the Nparent is a pathological liar and everything out of his/her mouth is a lie and has no validity. The second Truth is that the Nparent is not sick, but evil who enjoys hurting others. There is freedom in accepting this painful Truth. Maybe people, myself included, make the mistake of identify evil by extent rather than intent. They compare their N to others "worse" Ns and say, well mine is not that bad, so mine is not that evil -- wrong. The extent may vary, but the intent is the same, their agendas are the same, to hurt others, they enjoy it and that makes them evil.
"The life-long damage a toxic parent can do is astronomical." I agree with you 100%. Their Echos of Abuse damage generations to come and I am seeing that being played out in my Nsibs the relationships w/their children. The sins of the Father/Mother are passed down to the 3rd and 4th generation.
There is the option of Freedom & Healing away from the KoN. As you know Micheal, we have a very loving God who cares about His Children. He does not want us to be harmed and He does not want us to be victimized by Nparents. We are to have an Abundant Life, not a life of Slavery & Abuse. He told Mosses to tell Pharaoh to let His people go, Set the Captives Free! It is our Destiny to be loved not abused.
There is no N in Shalom! You can not achieve Shalom with a N.
May God bless you & yours.
Part I
ReplyDeleteI've been abused all my life, physically, emotionally, verbally, and psychologically. Thankfully not sexually. However, in virtually all respects I share your experiences regarding abuse. The kicker with my father, however, is his immersion in Christianity, which makes his narcissism so difficult for me to pierce with a stake.
The guy is not just a member of a church, nor is he only a deacon. He is an elder, a member of the highest council in the Southern Baptist Community seated in authority and service just below the pastor/assistant pastor. The flagrant hypocrisy all my life had terribly poisoned my relationship with Christ. Brad Pitt spoke so marvelously in the movie Fight Club, "Our father are our models for God. When our fathers fail us, what does that tell us about God?" In many respects, I treated myself the same way my dad did, and totally suppressed God's grace and mercy in the blackest corners of my mind. God was like my Dad, to me, especially with my dad's status in the church and his people-pleasing/glad-handing behavior there.
He is such a lying Janus. At his work, he tells jokes, entertains people, is happy for his patients, etc. At church he has been Mr. Servant, completely humble, leading the praise/worship music team. Lately, due to his sinking self-esteem (he based it on his looks which are fading) he has withdrawn much more from the Church community. Members have been asking about him, but he is still just as irascible, cantankerous, and volatile.
Sometimes I pity him, but every time I ask him whether something is the matter, or do something nice for him it just isn't good enough or he vents his inner fury on me. It doesn't help that I've been hyper-sensitive about it either.
The guy twists scripture to suit his fancies, too. Unsurprising considering his narcissism, but he is known for issuing chronic unsolicited advice. The guy is an unrepentant pedant, and I've told him I don't want his advice or help when I don't ask for it. Nonetheless, almost every discussion with him somehow revolves around improving me or criticizing me, which, even if it's constructive is vexatious and tiring. There is no real conversation with him. So, he tells me Proverbs 13:1 and tries to shame me into believing that I need to listen to his ceaseless stream of verbiage, which is often abusive. I'm 25, almost 26 years old, and don't need this kind of adolescizing of my mind from him. He hasn't let me grow up in his mind, and the damage has been brutal. Additionally, in scriptural disagreements he is not interested in determining truth of a position or going to the source (using Strong's or commentaries, etc.) but tends to rely on personal opinion and cultural mores where ambiguity prevails. For instance, I told him that I don't view Christ as someone who is here to punish me or condemn me. I know Romans 8:1 supports that. I told him that Christ is like my best friend. For three days later he mocked me and jeered at me when I disagree with him over things, sneering, "Why don't you go talk about THAT with your best friend!" The guy acts like a bastard sometimes.
James
Part II
ReplyDeleteI believe that people try do the best they can with the beliefs they have. However, some people have fairly destructive beliefs and should be avoided. It's encouraging to read what you guys have written, but I would like to tell you that your interpretation of Matthew 10:34-39 is not hermeneutically sound. In my experience, I am not going to play a judge against my dad and call him evil, reprobate, etc. That is for God to decide, and I wouldn't want someone doing that to me inaccurately.
However, I am aware that I am suffering abuse and need to cut ties with him. One doesn't need scripture to act on this. I mean, we are assumed to love ourselves, as Christ tells us to love others as we do ourselves. Obviously he isn't commanding us to love ourselves, but He assumes that we will and do. I do not know whether my dad is a Christian. I would rather focus on my faith and walk. To do that, I need distance from him, and truthfully, my happiness depends on it.
This doesn't invalidate your position on cutting ties with viciously codependent or narcissistic people, but you should be aware that the passage primarily refers to those in your family with opposing convictions on Christ's divine mission, not on interpersonal social dynamics between parents and children.
Be careful. Narcissistic parents are so unreachable and frustrating, and the Scriptures aren't exactly explicit on dealing with them, that it's easy to intuit things between the lines in our passionate search for someone up there to answer our doubts. We're love them so neurotically, and it's so hard to decide where to let the hammer fall.
I'm of the opinion, though, that we are told enough to be confident that parents who abuse their children are in the wrong. Ephesians 6:4 is clear on that. But it's important also that we realize we are not children. Narcissistic parents do not let you grow up. They will always try to make you feel like a child to them. They control you better, and you aren't a threat to them. Thus, even relying on Scripture that deals between parent-child relationship is inappropriate. Truthfully, we should be dealing with Matthew 22:36-40. The dynamic that is suitable is adult-to-adult. Not child to parent.
God Bless, and good luck. And avoid those addictions or compulsions! It's easy to turn to things when we need people who aren't there for us. Let yourself feel God's love.
James
Part III
ReplyDeleteI would like to preface this entry with an apology. It is morally obligatory to Christians to honor their parents, whether narcissistic or not, even as adults. Adulthood doesn't exempt one from the responsibility of honoring abusive parents. However, this honoring is consistent with what has been written by all of you and the primary post.
This article: provides a very Scripturally sound argument for responsibility of a parent toward his or her children. Forgiveness doesn't mean harboring resentment. If it requires separation, that's fine, but having ill will toward the parent or wrath is going to poison our lives and cause us to become more like them. One of the defining characteristics of Narcissists is that they do not forgive. Sure they may say it with a pat on your head, but it's mere condescension. They do not let things go, and the blame is always someone else's. When you release yourself from negative emotions surrounding them, and usually No Contact is the only way to do it, you'll feel much better. I'm in the process of doing it, and man, it has felt great to be separated, even for a few months. I can't wait until it's permanent, at least until the N changes. And N's don't change. I want the best for him, but it's not my problem. I'm not his deliverer, and I have better things to do with my time than depend on him for closure. My closure is my free life.
It's important to me not to say things that aren't in the Scriptures. I can think what I want, but to argue that God said this or that could be blasphemous if I am wrong, and I am not willing to do that. That's why I apologize for my post before about adults being exonerated from honoring their parents. That sounded good when I wrote it, but it's not really a falsifiable truth.
James
Hello James,
ReplyDelete(part 1)
I am so sorry for the little guy that you were who had to endure and survive all that you have. Recovery from the Nparent's KoN is extremely hard, and given your the level of N your BioDad is with enjoying hurting you even in covert, Toxic Teasing ways is horrible. When BioDad teased you about Jesus being your best friend I would have made a huge dash to the right, stopped to look up at the sky, and when your BioDad said, James what are you doing? What are looking for? You could reply Lighting Bolts.
James you seem to know Scripture very well. Have you read how the Holy Spirit led me through Scripture? If not, start here,
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/08/letting-go-with-honor-intro.html
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/09/christ-brings-division-wow.html
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/09/are-they-good-or-bad.html
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-they-get-worse-not-better-with-time.html
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/09/letting-go-with-honor-leaving-past.html
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/09/deliverance-from-wicked.html
(part 2) There are tons of Scripture tell each one of us to have Discernment in regards to determining whether or not someone is Healthy or not. You do not have to Judge only have Discernment and be safe and this applies to Nparents, Spouses and everyone else under the Son.
ReplyDeleteI do not judge anyone's Life. I always say, don't take my Word take Gods.
God lead me to NC w/my NFOO, right now I have contact w/the the lowest N sib which might be as I always said, damaged and can heal. She is showing signs of empathy and remorse and is sorry for hurting me, although has no clue to what she has done, so she is in prayer and we are asking God to reveal things to her. I have the Hope the size of a Mustard Seed, but that is all it takes right.
James, you wrote, "I'm of the opinion, though, that we are told enough to be confident that parents who abuse their children are in the wrong. Ephesians 6:4 is clear on that. But it's important also that we realize we are not children. Narcissistic parents do not let you grow up. They will always try to make you feel like a child to them. They control you better, and you aren't a threat to them. Thus, even relying on Scripture that deals between parent-child relationship is inappropriate. Truthfully, we should be dealing with Matthew 22:36-40. The dynamic that is suitable is adult-to-adult. Not child to parent."
I like the Scriptures you listed in regards to Nparents and agree with you that they apply. I would like you to pray before you look at Matthew 10:35 -- People make great mistakes and if our Parents were abused, there is a great temptation to continue the Legacy of Abuse to their Children. However, when there is no remorse, they are unrepentant, there lies the Problem. I have seen Parents that have hurt their Children, have remorse for what they have done and repented, ask their Children for Forgiveness, and the Adult Child and the Repentant Parent can not build the Bridge to Reconciliation, and have a Healthy & Blessed Relationship. God is very clear on how to handle Unrepentant People including NParents and your choice of NC is a Righteous one and Blessed by God, I would not say that if I was not sure it was Scripturally Supported. Look at Matthew 10:35 and see if you spot the an Adult to Adult Relationship represented and not just a Child to Adult.
I have Personally seen Ns get a Revelation on their behavior once the Adult-Child went NC, that can be awake up call for lower level Nparents and motivate them to change because they value their Adult-Child. I am praying that NC will be a Blessing to both you and your Ndad, it was for my NFiL who is more of a nFiL who does not verbally attack, respects, praises, supports, has some empathy & remorse. There is Hope. NC does not have to be set in stone. No one is more Surprised by me saying that then me, but I have seen that lower level Ns can change, and I am praying that will be the case for you and your Ndad and the Holy Spirit will fall upon him, convict him, and transform him.
In the mean time James, ask the Lord to teach you about the discernment of Authentic Remorse. My Demon Dad is a great deceiver and say Everything you need to hear, he looks the part of a Repentant Person, but the Holy Spirit was telling me this was not right, I had a sick feeling, thought I was being Paranoid for doubting the Demon Dad. Time passed and the Demon Dad's new Wife called to tell us that the Demon Dad had preyed upon his 4 yr. old DD. That was 14 yrs ago when we went NC. So it is important to know what Authentic Remorse, looks like, sounds like and feels like in your Spirit.
May our Heavenly Parent Bless you my Christian Brother.
Jeremiah 29:11 tells the plans God has for our Life and Abuse of ANY kind is not apart of it.
Love,
Letting Go
Thank you so much for this article. I've been struggling with a narcissistic mother who has verbally abused me for years and made me feel like I"m a horrible person when all I've ever done was try to make her happy. She has told me she doesn't love me, that I'm ugly, and even thrown me out of the house and changed the locks because I dated someone who "ate too much of her food". When I try to tell her that she hurts me with her comments and actions, she yells and acts belligerently towards me. The worse part is that she is active in the church, and everyone thinks she is an angel. She has placed a guilt trip on me that children are supposed to take care of their parents, and do what they say no matter what. If I try to assert my individuality she withdraws her love, or acts nasty towards me. I am now leaving the state to be with my husband who got a job in another state, and she is acting like I'm desserting her, instead of focusing on the fact that we both now have a wonderful opportunity to advance our selves and create new lives. She puts me down in front of others and seems jealous of me because I had opportunities that she never had because she got pregnant with me at an early age. I am not a Biblical scholar but I truly feel that our God would not want us to continue to bear abuse, no matter who it comes from. He gave us life to life abundantly, and I cannot fathom that he would desire any of us to live under mental bondage imposed by people who clearly want to see us suffer. Thank you, writer, for making me feel like I deserve a better life, and that I can be liberated from this guilt that I have been carrying for my entire life.God bless you!
ReplyDeleteThis sounds so much like my mother, that I almost could've sworn you were my little sis writing! I just recently went NC with my mom as I have lived 8 hrs away for 2 years now and it took me that long to come out from under her control. God bless you.
DeleteHomeogenic, I have said the exact same thing when I others share their survival stories from the KON (Kingdom of Narcissism) who had abusive parents. We are kindred spirits who have walked the same sort of path, out of destruction and into destiny. I know it was not easy to go No Contact, and I promise you that as I approach 3 years No Contact with the momster, the only regret I have is that 20 yrs. ago when I first went No Contact I went back. GOD has healed the deep soul wounds of the momster, there is no pain from the past, I have accepted that I do not have a biomom to love me and it is what it is, and I will not focus on what I don't have and instead will choose to celebrate all the blessings that GOD brings my way. We are not orphans, GOD is our Holy Parent, and we are not alone there is a spiritual family GOD's Family who love us. We can continue to pray for the reprobate parents that they will surrender to GOD, let GOD fix whatever is broken/evil in them before it is too late for them.
DeleteMany many many blessings to you Homeogenic,
Love,
Letting Go
Mae, GOD Loves you so very much, and abuse was never apart of His plan for you. Christ would not have endured all that He had, suffered all that He did for some of us to be trapped in an abusive relationship with an heartless, soulless person that lacks a conscience, and enjoys hurting their own child. GOD has told many people in the Bible to leave toxic people and it does not matter if that person is our own mother or our own child. GOD is very clear that an unrepentant person is a person to avoid and have absolutely no contact.
ReplyDeleteThese evil Ns definitely can put on a show for outsiders. Even the devil quotes GOD, so their Bible knowledge does not mean that they have a good soul, only a good memory until you want them to be accountable for something have done, then of course they have forgotten, yet will constantly remind of every little tiny mistake. The major difference is that when they hurt others it is with the intent to harm which makes them dangerous.
I pray you have ever lasting peace, about leaving the Momster in your past. Look ahead and don't give the past a second thought. This major life decision to separate from the Momster is going to bless your family for generations to come in countless ways.
Christ asked His Disciples, Who is My Family? The message He is telling us is that Family is defined by Love not Biology. The void the bioMom has created will be filled by a spiritual family. May you and your husband have a wonderful life far away from the Momster's KoN.
Thank you so much. Your statement that Family is defined by Love is so true. Thank you for reminding me that God loves me and want me to be happy. My mother/Momster has instilled in my mind that suffering is all I deserve. I do deserve better. God bless you, and thanks for your kindness.
Delete"Honoring Parents, and other commands like do not divorce, etc. were written in the absence of abuse, or more accurately stated, the absence of evil." The author's statement is incorrect therefore unbiblical statement. The 10 commandments came after evil and after fallen man to disobey god enticed by satan. So it was not written in absence of evil but because of evil requiring instructions not to do bad things.
ReplyDeleteBeliever, recall that the very hand of our Holy GOD created the 10 commandments, thus the 10 commandments, and all the other laws of GOD are written in the absence of evil. GOD tells us to rebuke evil, not honor it. Luke 17:3 is clear instructions to rebuke the unrepentant person, and IF s/he repents forgive. GOD gives us the gift of Spiritual Discernment to determine whether someone is imperfect, has remorse, asks forgiveness, or whether someone is unrepentant, makes excuses for the abuses, and desires to harm others.
ReplyDeleteMatthew 12:33
33: Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.
hello first i thank God for your encouraging post well its not my parents who i have a terrible realtionship with its my grandmother she raised me my mom did not want me so my dads mom took me i talk to my mom every now and then i love her, my dad is a minister but i cant receive from him because his life does not line up with the word says about leaders he is on his 3td wife they have a minisry together but they fight alot and he thinks she works witchcraft on him so i can not attend there ministry but anyway his mom my grandmother has always controllled my life im married now with children and she is just evil she goes around lying on my husband and i saying we steal her money, she had a boyfriend who touched my daughter inappropiately and she told my daughter she was lying she talks bad about me constantly, she has stolen from me and she thinks she has done no wrong, she calls my husband BOY she has no respect for him or my household and im tired. her sister tells me i shouldnt stop doing and helping her and im wrong to not to want to be around her i feel like she is tormenting me i cant take rhis anymore and my father is just living his life and leaving me to deal with this HELP ME!!!
ReplyDeletethis article is written very well. i have always regretted my ill feelings towards my mother for her neglect and mood swings but since i have started living on my own she has become emotionally abusive with long periods of silence or name calling. i have lived my whole life to make my family proud and it hurts to hear what she "thinks" of me. this backlash is usually because i dont distance myself from my father (who she is divorced from) when they have a disagreement.
ReplyDeleteshe has never apologized for anything she says and after a few months acts like nothing ever happened or buys me a present. im tired of being up all night crying over her abuse and don't wish to bring this toxicity into my future as i settle down and start a family of my own. after all of my finances are tied up i believe the best course of action would be to cease contact in the hopes that she realizes how much love she has lost.
Thank You srch for compliment on this article. This blog represents me processing the healing journey and freedom from toxic people. The process as you know is very painful, because the toxic person is toxic not only because of the harmful things they do, but because they lack remorse, enjoy hurting others, and thus will not change/repent. They will always attack if you do not do things their way, because they do not see people as people, but as puppets to control and serve them.
ReplyDeleteUprooting yourself from the Toxic Family Tree and planting yourself in a Land of Love is essential for you, your spouse, your children, and for generations to come. Creating a Legacy of Love begins with you leaving and having No Contact with Toxic People. Again it is not at all easy, but I promise you after 3 years of No Contact, the only regret I have is that I did not do it earlier.
One of the best books that you can read for yourself is "Necessary Endings" by Henry Cloud. It has blessed me in so many areas of my life. I wish I had this book 3 years ago, but even reading it now brought validation and new tools to use in both personal & business situations.
Blessings to you sweet lady. GOD has great plans for you (Jeremiah 29:11) and abuse is not apart of it. I would also rec. checking out Luke 17:3 Ministries, the link is on the home page of this blog, and they have a fantastic facebook group too. You are not alone and there are many other people who understand, are going or have gone through the painful process of letting go of toxic parents. GOD loves you and the void of the toxic people will be replaced with loving safe people, it will get better, it does get better, and you are moving in that direction. Blessings to you.
Very interesting blog. I will be rereading this as i enter therapy with an abusive evil parent. (today is the first day, & he is in for a shit storm!) My question is, how do you separate from an abusive evil parent when they are Married to a Loving/Godfearing parent who are still married & living together? I have no problem dismissing abusive people from my life, but my parents are still married, so this is a huge dilemma, since my mother & I have a wonderful relationship & my father is an evil piece of shit.
ReplyDeleteIrene -- how is therapy going w/the abusive evil parent? Please be extremely cautious & careful, because even trained experts can be N-chanted by narcissistic people. There needs to be set guidelines, and the therapist needs hold the Narcissist accountable when s/he is not accountable. Look out for the trap of you being painted as "having too high of expectations, or being unforgiving, etc." when the other person is not doing what s/he is suppose to do to change.
DeleteYou ask a great question, "How do you separate from an abusive evil parent when they are Married to a Loving/Godfearing parent?" Your mother will forever be caught between you and the "abusive evil parent". It will be a never-ending war w/her spouse wanting her to choose sides, and prove her faithfulness & loyalty to her. This may happen in obvious or covert ways, such as getting her to break a lunch date with you, etc.
You & your mom must establish clear boundaries between the two of you, and stick to them. You must decide for yourself what is acceptable and what is not. On the subject of the "abusive evil parent" you will have to agree to disagree, and that you can have a relationship w/her separate from him. Part of that includes not talking about him to her, and her not talking about you to him. When the two of you get together do an activity that you both enjoy, where you focus on the activity, and not the pain of the past. The two of you can not change the past, but you two can intentionally work together to have a great relationship here on out.
I would be greatly remiss if I did not bring up the Momma thing. Being a loving Momma myself I would not stand for my husband to be abusive & evil to my child, so I would highly rec. finding a great therapist that you and your mom can see together, and work on some things that I suspect have not been addressed, because all the focus has been on the "abusive evil parent" and the harm he has caused. A good therapist can also help you work on your relationship with your mom aside from the "abusive evil parent". You mom must be willing to protect her relationship with you, so that her husband does not interfere & cause problems. I hope that you and your mom will be able to establish & maintain a loving healthy relationship.
I just read this blog and all I can say is wow! AWESOME STUFF! This is exactly what I have thought and or have said to myself for years without anyone else validating it. I have heard the commandment, "Honor your Father and Mother" shoved down my throat from so many well-meaning people including priests that I feel nervous whenever I tell "Christian people" that I have no contact with anyone from my family of origin. I am a Catholic, not that it matters, but I do go to church and I do believe. I don't feel wrong about the fact I have no contact with anyone in my family of origin because I believe my brother, sister, mother, and father are extremely toxic people. And, its not good for my health or well-being to continually try to change them or make them understand me or go to war with them day in and day out via email. I tried that for the first 32 years of my life and it didn't work. The no contact rule is hard, especially since I live in South Korea and I am tempted to send my evil father a rude email whenever he tries to contact me out of the blue, but deleting their emails and ignoring them altogether is the best way I think. My father will not stop trying to email me or contact me no matter how many times I tell him to leave me alone!!!! (I hate gmail by the way--there is no way to block only filter!) This is also the first year I stopped sending all gifts to my mom and brother and sister which is hard too because I want to be generous. But, I realize when I send gifts or presents and then engage in verbal altercations with them it sends the wrong message. I might even get really crazy and delete my email account. All I know is I am only 32 years old and I feel like most of my life has been stolen from me by these people, aka my worst enemies, by engaging in fights with them and wasting all my energy verbally trying to battle them. It never works and I feel exhausted and worn out and no energy for things I love or activities I enjoy. I am pregnant now and I worry about my child and how this will affect them. I do not intend for my child to meet my family of origin because its not safe or healthy for them. Thanks for listening. This blog inspires me.
ReplyDeleteThank You Holly for all you have shared. I understand how you feel when we look back @ all the years we have spent in their Kingdom of Narcissism (aka KoN), trying to change. The first dream they kill is the one of having loving thoughtful kind family members. Hey we would just be happy if they would start being mean and harmful, but they wont because they actually enjoy hurting others, that's why they will never change.
DeleteWe were born into their KoN, but the Great News is that we do not have to stay in it. It is not GOD's Plan for us to stay in a toxic mess that stills the Divine Destiny that He has planned for us. I never knew just how great it could be outside of the toxic web of their KoN, until I left 3 years ago. It was not easy, there was an unexpected grieving process when you make the very essential decision to go No Contact. I wish they would change, but they have no desire to do so. There is no remorse, no regret, and no repentance, so there will be no reconciliation, via Luke 17:3 and all the other great Scriptures that talk about staying away from unrepentant sinners/abusers.
It was when I became a Momma that I knew things must change, and that I did not want the KoN to be my daughter's legacy. What the LORD has taught me through this Exodus out of captivity of their KoN is that "Family is defined by Love not biology." Read Matthew 12:46-50
GOD will replace what the enemy has taken away, if we allow Him to redefine family for us, so that He can bless us with loving, kind, thoughtful, supportive people. The benefit of leaving the KoN is that you have the time and freedom to allow GOD to introduce you to wonderful people that will become apart of your new family. I love my Sisters & Brothers in Christ. They are not my family by blood, by they are my family by love, and I am closer to them in such a short amount of time, then I ever was with the biofamily whom I knew my entire life.
As a Momma I had to ask myself, do I want to give my child a legacy of dysfunction or a legacy of love where imperfect people make mistakes, have regret, remorse, ask for forgiveness, and repent, opposed to people who enjoy harming others.
Is it time to uproot yourself from the toxic family tree, and start a new family tree, a new legacy of love beginning with you?
WOW! Thank you SO VERY much for this. I instantly felt better after reading this! I made the decision to leave mine and my husbands toxic family before reading this and was constantly criticized and put down for it because "God says we have to stay with our family no matter what"
ReplyDeleteYeah right! I couldn't take it and when I had my daughter I fled with her and my husband. My mom always scared me SO much! I have MANY memories of her smiling during the worst moments in life (I was molested from 10 months old and up. I finally found out what molestation was when I was in junior high and told my principle. My mom showed up at the school and refused to press charges or do anything to my molester uncle who by this time had molested just about every girl in my family! What was her reason for not pressing charges? He has children... AH! I couldn't believe it! She invited him to my high school graduation and to my baby shower!!! That's when I realized I can not stay with my family. If I did my daughter would be next!)
I was abused in just about anyway you can imagine and it hurts me every second.My mom made me think I was the crazy one! And I felt guilty and made every effort to change and I did change in a different way then I imagined. I realized I was not the evil person. I realized that my life was a lie really that mom had created to put me down and own me. I realize now to make money off me. It hurt. I sometimes just break out in tears because I know what it feels like to be trash used and unloved.
My husband unfortunately had toxic family too. They told my husband he was he nothing more than a pet to them and that God gave him to his mother to make money for her and his older brothers because he was born the only capable son. His older brothers do absolutely nothing other than drugs and use people. They can not have children so when they found out my husband and I were having a baby guess what their response was. That they had to take our child, Because they needed to teach her to use tarot cards and manipulate people!
It hurts because now we don't have any family other than each other but we are unconditionally in love with one another and our daughter. But they do call often leaving messages and texts that leave my husband and I feeling SO bad. I don't understand why we are considered the bad ones for leaving them. It was what is best for our baby.
By the way our toxic families consider themselves to be 100% christian. And they say we are 100% the devil. We have been called the devil so often by them. I hurts. They do go to church but they ARE toxic and they refuse to see it or admit to it. They believe they are perfect. They say it often. Why can't they understand what they are doing is wrong?
Sweet Maggie, I am thrilled you have escaped the serpent's pit. You have survived hell on earth. You & your hubby are not only beginning a new life for yourselves, but you are creating a new legacy of love for your children and your descendants.
DeleteYou are leaving the captivity that once chained you to a living hell, and now you are moving forward for yourself, for your family, and for future generations.
Evil will never admit it's wrong. You see it, I see it, and everyone else with a loving mind, heart and soul sees evil as wrong, but evil will never admit it, and only try to justify it by blaming the victim -- that is what evil people do.
Just because someone calls him/herself a Christian, goes to church, memorizes Scripture, and sings in the choir does not make them a Christian. There is no true good in evil, only a "good" performance for others to promote their false self (the mask of humanity) that they wear to fool others. Evil is as Evil does.
Evil will forever detest you, because of who you are and they will never be (kind, loving, thoughtful, compassionate, integrity, Godly, etc.). They are envious of what you have they do not (a loving soul). They do not see people as people to cherish, but mere objects to use and abuse, then discard.
You want them to admit that have done wrong, so that you can work on healing, but they will not do that. If they ever say they are wrong it is only to trick you into coming back to their captivity, so they can use and abuse you again.
If you haven't already read these posts, I would like to recommend them, because the wisdom I found really blessed me to keep moving forward, and not get trapped in the past.
Life in the KoN
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2011/09/covert-illusion-of-kon.html
Life in the KoN is about a 2-way Projection
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/11/life-is-kon-is-about-double-projection.html
Exposing the Narcissists (seeing them for who they really are)
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/05/narcissistic-parent.html
Why Do They Keep Attacking
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-do-they-keep-on-attacking.html
The Discovery
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2011/04/discovery-process.html
Closure. . Redefine it to find it
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/07/closure-redefine-it-to-find-it.html
Crucified for Projected Lies
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2011/04/crucified-for-projected-lies.html
Family . . Redefine it to find it
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2012/06/family-redefine-it-to-fine-it.html
Maggie, the best advice I can give you is to invest your energy and time on moving forward way from the pain of the past. Celebrate your freedom. There will be many Christians who will not understand what we have been through and will tell you that you are not being forgiving, etc., but they do not understand, thus they are not able to give you advice on things they know not of. Set your eyes on Christ, and move towards Him and away from the pain of the past. I promise you that GOD's Amazing Love will in time transform the worst things we have been through to help others. It is unimaginable how something good can come from horrific abuse, but GOD does make it happen, and He is in the process of making it happen for you and your hubby too.
Many Blessings are coming your way. Keep your eyes on Christ and your feet moving forward away from the things of the past.
Please help me understand how to apply this article to my situation. My mother has always been verbally manipulative to the point of abusive. The tricky part comes in because she is also not fully mentally stable. She is medicated for chronic back pain and has had a downward spiral with anxiety, depression, and possible bipolar disorder. Instead of accepting these illnesses, she takes them off and puts them on as she sees fit. If she wants to belittle me or manipulate me, she decides she is sane and lucid. When I put my foot down and "call her out" on the abuse, she puts all of the dx's back on as her defense as to why she is the way she is and I should not expect her to conduct herself well. It's making my head spin. I have 3 beautiful children that I don't want to nessisarily "keep from their grandmother", but it is very painful for me to be exposed to her. I also have the problem that I was saved at 26 years old, and she throws in my face any poor choices I made as a young, unsaved girl. No forgiveness or commending for how far I have come. She believes that she is a Christian, but contradicts that with words she uses and lack of fruit, and the way she picks and chooses what she wants to believe in the Bible. So, with all of that being said.....how does mental illness in the abusive parent play into how much I'm supposed to take. Am I free in Christ to use the advice in this article to honor her by being away from her?? I also don't want to weaken my witness with many unsaved family members by looking like someone who just "threw away" a family member. I can't live like this anymore though. Something has to give.
ReplyDeleteHello JLarsonmommy, your question is. . .
DeleteAm I free in Christ to use the advice in this article to honor her by being away from her??
The answer is yes. Here is the Biblical Foundation,
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2011/02/god-tells-us-to-let-go-of-toxic-people.html
Christ said He came to bring a sword of separation. GOD told Abraham to have No Contact w/toxic family members that were his children or like children. We are not to be anyone's personal savior that is Christ's job not ours. Plus you can not save those whom do not wish to be saved, because they are having too much fun ruling over everyone.
There are other unwritten or unasked questions to address in your post.
Is mental illness an excuse for abuse? No. Just because someone has a mental does not make them abusive that is their evil nature not their mental illness. Let me explain.
Bipolar is a mood disorder meaning that moods go up and down. Take two different people w/the same disorder Bipolar. Person A and Person B. When in an elevated state "the up state" Person A wants to "Save the Word" and Person B wants to control or destroy the world. Person A wants to help others opposed to Person B who wants to harm others. Now in the depressed state, or "low state" Person A depressed will want to commit suicide, opposed to Person B who will want to commit homicide (or some other way to harm others to elevate feeling bad about his/her self). Meds control or manage the mood swings, but they have no effect on the person's personality. Thus Person A has a kind personality, and person B has an anti-social or psycho personality who has to harm others and make them feel bad in order to feel good. It is hard to understand, because you are a kind person and your mind, heart, soul, personality does not want to harm others. These narcissists play the victim really well, and know how to make you think you are the bad person for calling them on what they do. Even professionals are often fooled by these deceivers, because they prey on other's people's empathy and use it against us.
And we find ourselves making excuses for their abuses.
Keep in mind that they do not attack everyone, only certain people which proves they know what they are doing and can control themselves. Here is more detail on that.
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2012/07/do-they-harm-us-on-purpose.html
JLarsonmommy, here is part two.
DeleteLet me dispel another myth. If a person can not be a loving mom, she can not be a loving grandma. It will cause your children serious problems to see, witness, experience, and suffer while you and your mom in a toxic relationship. Even though you will say that this is not right the fact that you stay in a toxic relationship w/someone who enjoys causing you harm sends the wrong message to your children, and they will most likely find themselves in toxic relationships, because that is what was shown to them. We must be strong for our children and show them that it is not okay to be in a toxic relationship. Share the truth w/your children in an age appropriate way. When my daughter asked about where Mommy's Mommy was I told her that my mommy is very mean and likes to hurt others, so since she is not safe to be around we are not around her. My daughter also knows that when you hurt someone you ask for forgiveness, promise you will not do that again, and be responsible & accountable to keep your promise. We are not expecting people to be perfect, but we are expecting as GOD expects people to have remorse and repent for the wrong they have done. Luke 17:3 as well as many other Scriptures talk about how it is essential for us to repent.
Forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation, in the cases involving unrepentant narcissists it means releasing them, and what they have done to you, so that we can be free from the pain of the past and move forward into what GOD has waiting for us.
You must ask yourself as did I, What kind of legacy do you want to leave for the next generation? To have a new legacy requires us to make new choices which is to model healthy loving relationships for our children. Our children deserve to inherit an atmosphere of love and kindness to pass down to the future descendants.
Remember misery loves company and other people who are in toxic relationships will try to trap you with FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt). FOG will keep you trapped in captivity. No the Truth and the Truth shall make you free. You must decide to know the Scriptures for yourself and know what GOD is telling you to do for your life and your children's life, etc.
Jeremiah 29:11
Praying for internal peace, so that you may hear GOD's Voice above everyone else's including mine, so that you will go where He longs for you to go, and do what He longs for you to do.
Blessings to you.
Oh, my mother is also "sorry" when there is no denying what she has done, but it hasn't shown any change for the future. She also admitted today that she gets really mad about something or someone else and calls me and picks a fight......
ReplyDeletePart 1. It saddens me to hear how your "mother" enjoys harming you on purpose, and how her sorry is just a deceptive tool she uses to keep you trapped.
DeleteAndy Andrews has a great message about those who just say they are sorry, and those who humble themselves and ask for forgiveness. Toxic People are devious. They know that by simply saying they are sorry gains them future access to hurt us again. There is no authentic remorse, because they lack empathy. There is no responsibility nor accountability for their harmful actions, and no commitment to change, repent, so that they will not do us harm in the very near future. Only empty words. As the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. Since your mother admitted that she takes her anger out on you, now it is up to you to establish a healthy boundary such as requiring her to get professional help, so that she no longer takes her anger and evil agenda out on you. She is clearly a toxic to you and your children. Even if she does not hurt your children directly she is hurting them by hurting their mother.
You are your children's mother and you must decide what legacy are you going to give to your children. By refusing to be in a toxic relationship with your mother you will show your children that they too can chose to have healthy loving relationships.
For your mother to admit that she takes her anger out on you, desires to hurt you does not show how honest she is, but shows how evil her desire is, and how comfortable she is about admitting to you how she desires & intends to hurt you. It is because you are her prey and she has you trapped with FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt), and because she has hurt you over and over gain and you stay, so you will continue to be her prey -- until you decide enough is enough and leave.
A real mother desires to protect her child from harm, not cause her child harm.
When your family is your foe -- you got to let them go!
Part 2.
DeleteMy daughter is 6 yrs. old and just today as she is home sick she's saying how happy she is that she has a loving Mama that takes care of her and doesn't hurt her, and that she is sorry that I didn't have a loving Mama and that my mother was mean and hurt me. My daughter said that she is happy that that mean person can no longer hurt me, or us.
When my daughter was almost 2yrs old she witnessed the Momster yelling at me, because I would not do as she wanted and hate someone who she now hates who has been & continues to be like an Aunt to me for 30 yrs. My daughter picked up a plant out of a pot and threw it at the Momster to get her to stop yelling at me. My daughter never did that before or since. It woke me out of the FOG that I was in. I had always vowed that my child/ren's life would be different than mine free from abuse, free from toxic dysfunction, and here before my eyes the Momster showed us that she was willing to be mean because my Aunt had sent my daughter an outside toy and I dared to refer to this person who the Momster hated as Aunt, so the Momster went for the juggler.
The Momster showed me that she was not going to change, and that she would continue to be toxic & harmful to me and my child. I wrote the Momster an Official No Contact letter where I clearly explained to her that since she is not changing and desires to harm others that she is to have to more future contact with us which included sending packages for my daughter. I clearly told her in no uncertain terms that as for a relationship w/me, my hubby, and my child "It is finished". She tried to send packages to my daughter which we donated the first package (hubby had a weak moment and opened it), then for the second package the Momster sent to my daughter we took it to the post office and had them write on it "Return to Sender".
It was only through my daughters eyes that I saw that my daughter was being hurt, and that I was being hurt by allowing the Momster to even have very limited contact. I had become use to the Momster's abuse, but GOD opened my eyes to see how horrible this person is and how she is not only toxic to me, but my precious daughter. What I shared with you, "if you stay you continue to be her prey" is what GOD spoke to my heart. I deserved better, my child deserved better, you deserve better, and your children deserve better. If your mother was just a normal imperfect person she would see how horrible it is to hurt her child and she would take herself to therapy, but she wont. She will continue to harm you, because she truly enjoys harming you that is why they continue to do it. They do know better and they can control themselves, because they don't abuse everyone (which would show a lack of control), only us showing they do have indeed have control over their actions.
You have the power to change your life and your children's life for the better. If you stay you will continue to be her prey.
Thank you so much for this article. I grew up being badly abused by my mother and my father. However, I left a large margin of excuse for my dad because he was in the Navy, and I only saw him a few weeks out of every year. He would play with me and my brother when he was home on leave but he would also be mean and verbally abusive to my brother and beat up my mother who was an awful person herself! Just recently as a mother and grandmother I have tried to reconnect with my dad, hoping he really loved me somewhere deep inside himself. Now that he is almost 80 and alone, I thought I would find some tenderness in him. Instead,I am shocked and hurt by his repeated attacks, anger, false accusations, and downright mean things he says to me. Sadly, I have to accept the fact that he is no better than my mother was (she is still alive but dead to me). They both have treated me hatefully, without any remorse or compassion my whole life. At this point I am wiping the dust off my feet and moving on. I am through turning over rocks hoping to find the gold coin to only find dirt.
ReplyDeleteHello Miss Debra. Thank You for sharing your heart and your journey. I know the discovery of your biofather is very painful. I know what it is like to not only have one horrible bioparents, but two. It is not only the terrible things these horrible beings do against their children, but the fact that they have no remorse, no regret, thus they have not changed, and if given the chance they will continue to hurt you however they can, as you recently experienced with biofather. As painful as it was and still is you were able to discover that they will not change, so as you said you can wipe the dust off and move on with peace knowing that you have done all that you can do, and you have given them a life-time of chances to change, but they refuse because they have a reprobate spirit.
ReplyDeleteThe treasure you seek is not in the past, but living on purpose to create a Legacy of Love by being an awesome mother and grandmother. Have peace that you are rooted in Christ, and that GOD promises us that when our mother and father forsake us GOD shall be our Loving Parent, and He shall put the lonely into families. GOD has taught me that Family is defined by Love, not biology.
Focus on the Gift of Today -- The Present -- that GOD has given you will all the Blessings that He has given you with being a Mama, Grandma, and His Beloved Child. Better things are still to come, now that you are not chained to a painful past, now that you have been set free.
Do not allow the enemy to bring up those toxic reruns of the past, or get you trapped in pain, anger, and bitterness. You have been made FREE, and that is worth celebrating!
I would also like to encourage you to read books about how you are a Beloved Child of GOD's. This is has really blessed me. Also explore new interests, something you have wanted to try, or something you have enjoyed in the past, but haven't done in a long time. In sharing my journey through blogging these last couple of years I have discovered I enjoy writing -- HUGE Unexpected Surprise. May your life bring you many wonderful blessings.
Thank u...beautiful article...I do not value myself enough when god says not to re-establish a relationship with my toxic parents..my mum is a narcisst...I do not like that god is saying not to have a relationship with them again...y can't god change them...i know god z trying to protect me..but i feel guilty especially bcos my parents looked aftr my physical needs so well n paid for my education -upto the point of a degree...but god showed me how toxic ppl r obstacles for him to bless me...I feel torn...I know if I go back to my parents, they will destroy my life...but they will be confused when I obeygod n cut them off ...they will think how much they loved me n I am treating them like this...but they r extremely verbally abusive n controlling..bcos of them, godz blessings in my life haven't happened...I am so torn..they have hurt me a lot but they dont c it..they believe bcos they took cate of my physical needs, i shud obey them ...i am 24 by the way n an Indian female, so once i move out n not come back to my parents, everyone will c me as a bitch...
ReplyDeleteHello Suze. I understand how you feel. Family members trashed talked me too. One Auntie believed the Momster's lies about me -- then the Momster turned on her and Auntie apologized several times for believing lies about me. This is your life dear one. For now I would recommend focusing on building a life for you, and avoid contact with those who enjoy hurting you. You can tell them that you are too busy right now. Pray about what GOD wants you to do in your particular situation. It is not for others to understand or agree. You have the right to treated with love and respect, and until certain people can do that, then you must keep yourself safe from harm. Just because parents have helped you out in the past does not make you a slave to their abuse. I would highly rec. reading books like "Necessary Endings" and other books from Dr. Cloud which provides great insight to relationships/situations that are harmful, as well as helping build communication tools and self-care skills.
Delete