Why do they keep on attacking?

But why when all I do is offer love, forgiveness, understanding, etc does s/he continue to disrespect, not appreciate, devalue, attack and hurt me? How come they can or will not reciprocate what has been given to them?

Simple. . . it is in his/her nature. It is what toxic people do, they attack, because they enjoy it because it is in their nature.

Have you heard about the story, The Scorpion and the Frog or The Scorpion & the Fox?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu44zAcqnXg&NR=1

The only way to out fox a scorpion is to have NO CONTACT with it.

When I googled this story about the Scorpion I noticed there were different versions of the same story all ending the same way. While the Scorpion stayed the same, its targets, the one it attacked varied from a frog/toad, turtle/tortoise, fox and swan. It reminded me of WoN that while we have individual differences are attackers remain the same, they attack because it is their nature.

I also came across the story of The Scorpion and the Swan and found this very interesting blog,

which confirmed to me that it is not only the projected lies that toxic people tell us, but even more importantly it is the lies we project onto the toxic person. Yikes! It is about the lies we tell our Self about the toxic person and about ourself that we are strong enough to handle the deadly sting of the Scorpion.

There was a Swan at the edge of a river and a scorpion approached asking the swan if she would kindly give him a ride to the other side of the river on her back. The swan said "no, you are a scorpion, you will sting me and I will die." The scorpion assured the swan that he wouldn't do that, all he wanted was a ride to the other side and he promised she was safe with him. So the swan gave in and allowed the scorpion to climb upon her back. She swan to the other side and just before reaching the shore the scorpion stung her and jumped to safety. As the swan was sinking, slowly dying from the poisons she asked the scorpion why he broke his promise and stung her. The scorpion said "I'm a scorpion, that is what I do."

Ernie asked me why I believed that the swan allowed the scorpion on her back. I said it was because she was denying her instincts. He said it went deeper than that. So I asked Ernie to explain. He said the swan was projecting her swan like qualities upon the scorpion.

There is that word "projection" again. When we come to understand narcissism we find that narcissists are masters at projection. They take the dark qualities within themselves and project them onto those who love them. But we don't often think about our own projections. We just as easily project our goodness upon the narcissist in our lives and then we fall in love with the good qualities in ourselves projected upon the other. We see the narcissist (scorpion) as someone who is empathetic, caring, loving, concerned, compassionate and honest, because this is who we are. The narcissist gladly owns our projections and gives us his dirt. We get accused of being the very thing we eventually come to see in him.

I remember being accused of being selfish, greedy, uncommitted, angry, bi-polar and a host of other things that left me questioning whether or not this was really true. The most difficult thing was that he really seemed to believe it. He believed he was the pure one and I was the one poisoning his reality with my impurities. But once the veil was lifted and I could see through the narcissistic Web of Illusion I could see that who he accused me of being was never the truth about me.

One thing I notice with many of my clients is that they just can't believe the narcissist in thier lives was capable of doing the things he/she did. It is so out of character from the person they believed him or her to be. The ending of the relationship is almost always traumatic because the "swan" learns she has been deceived. She trusted the narcissist and believed in him and is shocked at his sudden change in behavior. She is shocked that he has no feeling about her sinking and drowning and just hops off as if nothing ever happened. She gave him her life! She believed him when he said he would never sting her. And now he laughs in the face of her pain and disbelief. "Stupid swan!" He says as he hops off! "I can always count on their goodness to get what I want."

If I were to imagine the rest of the story I would say the swan sunk down to the bottom of the river only to find the bodies of all those beautiful swans that came before her. She was not the first, nor would she be the last. Because it is the nature of the scorpion to sting.

http://www.narcissismfree.com/swan-and-scorpion.php

More detail on the Swan and Scorpion can be found at the link above.

Wait a minute folks there is more to this story is not over yet! The Scorpion has a hard thick out shell and aside from his belly full of poison which supplies his deadly tail he is completely hallow inside which gives him the ability to remain at the very surface rather than to sink to the depths of devastation like the beautiful swan who is a very solid creature. What the Scorpion fails to realize is that the beautiful swan while covered in complete darkness has the spirit of the Phoenix and will rise born again and even stronger than before because now she has the ability to soar. Meanwhile the Scorpion filled w/deadly toxins is being destroyed from within. He is devolving and deconstructing during each attack until he implodes and self-destructs because he had no substance to keep him afloat and he has no spirit to be born again. Any decaying remains of his life becomes food for the scum of the Earth. His life becomes utter waste while the majestic swan soars to new heights where the sky is her only limit.

Now for another interesting story which I can really relate to which is analogous to why I escaped the KoN. The story is called, The Farmer and the Viper. Have you heard of it?

"The Farmer and the Viper" is a fable often attributed to Aesop. Of ancient origin, it appears in several West African and European sources as well.^[1][2] The story concerns a farmer who finds a viper freezing in the snow. He takes pity on it and picks it up and places it within his coat. The viper, revived by the warmth, bites the farmer. The farmer cries out that he should have seen it coming.

In some versions, the farmer brings the viper home and his children go to pet it. The viper gets ready to bite the children when the farmer cuts off the viper's head.

The moral is that "kindness is wasted on evil".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farmer_and_the_Viper

I relate to the Farmer because I thought I was strong enough to handle the attacks of the Viper/Momster -- however when I realized the harm that having a Viper in the house was to my child I had no problem Letting Go of the dangerous Viper. I noticed ambient abuse towards my child from the Momster regarding "forgetting" about her birthday gifts when she gave all the other grandchildren gifts. If the Momster simply "forgot" then she would remedy the situation which she never did and in fact made it worse by blaming me for not allowing her to visit more w/my D. Nothing but lies to support her evil behavior. This attack against me and my D is undetectable by many people, but those who have Nparents know how they do the "Set-Up". They do something so cunning, sneaky insidious & subtle that when we call them on it, we look like we are just being "too sensitive or taking things the wrong way" I decided I was not going to let the Viper do a more overt and obvious attack against us, in addition to the Last Straw Moment, My H and I decided time to prune these toxic roots and start a healthy family tree free from the KoN.

Change your words Change your life

I wonder if I have been replaced yet?

Remember, you are an amazing individual who has intrinsic value, thus your uniqueness can not be replaced, he can only find a new source to deceive. He will never find another you, only another source. And you are nobody's source!

Tonight Upsi reminded me of one of the greatest lessons I learned from one of my Therapists/Life Coaches that changed my life because it empowered & grounded me and balanced my life. From that moment I went from just living life to actually enjoying it.

I great short fast read book that was required reading is Hung by the Tongue. If you implement the principles that it teaches it will forever change your life. No joke it is that great! It is required reading for CEO's of many huge big businesses.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ie=UTF8&keywords=hung+by+the+tongue&tag=googhydr-20&index=stripbooks&hvadid=1144008941&ref=pd_sl_d1mqr9rik_b

Quote

We can't break up with our mothers, we can't end the relationship~upsi

I use to feel the same way. Then my T told me what I will share with you, Who says you can not break up or divorce your toxic mother, Who says she must stay in your life? There was a great NY Times article on Divorcing One's Parent, but it is no longer on the internet. Many people choose to do this when they realize that a relationship w/a NM means constant & consistent disappointment and pain at some level or another. I am not in any way telling you or Upsi to go NC that is your choice, but also know that it is also your choice to remain in contact. I guess what I am awkwardly trying to say, the actual words we choose send a message to Self that we have power (I choose to) or no power (I must, have to, forced to, got to, can't, have no other choice etc.) These are words my T told me to remove from my vocabulary for the next 30 days and see what happens. using words that say I have no power over my life. I could only use the phrase, I choose to. . . . Of course I asked her, well there are things we all have to do and she replied, like what? I have to pay rent. Why? Well, I can't not pay. Why Not? I will lose my apartment, have to find another place, ruin my credit, etc. So you choose to pay your rent because you do not like the alternative consequence of not paying the rent, but the choice is still up to you. Choose the behavior choose the accompanying consequence (this of course is the short-version, IRL it took a bit longer for me to fully accept what my T was saying to me ). Even when the choices we have are pretty terrible as in choosing a Toxic Mother or having No Mother, for me it meant No parents, none at all, because I had already choose to go NC w/Monster Dad years ago. So both choices are terrible. Of course my choice would be to have a loving imperfect parent that could value at some level having a D that loves her, and she could love me in return, but that is not reality. Wish it was, but it is not. That is only an illusion. What I had to do first was to grieve the dream/the goal/the illusion that someday in some small way my life would have true meaning to my NM other than a source of NS. This third choice is not ever going to be available to me no matter how hard I tried, cried, and prayed. So I have two choices available to me and at the end of this month I will be celebrating my choice's First Anniversary of NC. I do agree w/Gavin de Becker author of The Gift of Fear, that if I never realized it was my choice to stay in a relationship w/a N person than I would never realize that I had the power to choose to leave it. When you choose NC whether it is temp. or permanent you say to the N , but most importantly you say to yourself that The Pain Stops Here & Now. By Pain it not only limited to heart ache & physical discomfort; it also includes, Stress, Anxiety, Depression, Confusion, Learned Helplessness, Anger, Fear, Guilt, etc. and everything that goes all with these. NC means No More New Pain to be added to your life from the N where to me LC, which I have done since my senior year in HS, means that I am taking a Time Out from the Pain, but the Pain always resumes w/contact (ie new attacks = new pain). NC does not have to be something you set in stone. You can do it for a year, or 6 months, and at the end ask yourself:

Have I had enough time to heal all the old pain before I add some new pain on top of the old? Just because the pain is not present does not mean it is completely healed. Absent of pain does not mean healing necessarily, it could mean that the person that triggers the pain (the toxic person) is not present to elicit it.

Do I want to resume contact = resume attacks = resume pain or renew another year of NC to continue to work on healing the old pain? or

If the old pain has healed do I want to deal with new pain by resuming contact?

Resume Contact or have another year of NC?

Can you guess which one I am going to choose?

Last year I was at the Proverbial Cross Roads. There are two roads before me. The familiar one that behind me shows abuse in my past, beside me shows abuse in my present, and down the road leads me to more abuse waiting to attack me, or there is the unfamiliar road that offers Freedom from abuse and a Journey to Healing. This road I hear provides an Escape from the Kingdom of Narcissism (the KoN) & abuse to a Whole New World of Understanding, Validation & Love, the Land of Love Now that I have had my first year of NC (I actually did NC for a year once before in my life) continuing another year of NC is not scary and I have peace about it.
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6961.msg21582.html#msg21582

Quote

Sometimes I just want to run away! ~ Seekingme

Oh do I remember this feeling. This is a choice available to you. When I left the KoN it started off with escaping the Pain, but somewhere along the Journey it became about. . . . letting go and seeking me.
I think you might like this thread.
Metaphorically speaking, What kind of shoes are you wearing right now?
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7070.0.html

book that is very inexpensive, a very quick read and life changing for me was
Hung by the Tongue
http://www.amazon.com/Hung-Tongue-What-You-Say/dp/0965243303/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290110047&sr=1-1

Check out the reviews,
"Martin shows that success and defeat is born in the mind. We as humans tend to speak what we believe. Martin shows that what we speak can bring on failure or victory."

Even from a critic, " I struggled to read the book fully since I do not believe in God and this book was all from the perspective of a God-fearing soul. But this offered some tremendous advice - the power of words that leave our mouth. In fact, one example stood out - if one is arrested in the US, the cops "recite" some sentences. Almost always that starts with "You have the right to remain SILENT. Anything you say may be used against you in the court of law....". That was a big eye-opener! As they say in management - "When in deep s**t, keep your mouth shut"! Watch what you say! Read this book! And if you are god-fearing, you will reap much more postives from this book."

Before I knew there was a word for Projected Lies, I read this book. It taught me how to deal & heal from Projected Lies from the KoN and to be a Friend to Self. Even if you don't share the Spiritual Perspective, the Principles & Precepts are Powerful. It will help to empower Self and protect self from being one's own worst enemy.

Hung by the Tongue is worth more than its weight in gold!

Jealousy. . . Friend or Foe?

Great info on the difference between Envy and Jealousy.

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7429.msg27521.html#msg27521

"Envy-prone people who experience goodness in another person feel the goodness to be painfully insufficient and resent both their own dependency upon the other and the other's control over the goodness. Envy is defined as hatred directed toward good objects. Compared to 'regular' hatred, in which the good object is protected [and] the bad object is attacked, in hatred with primitive envy another's goodness is experienced as a threat to the person's own grandiosity or idealized self-experience,and the goodness is destroyed. In other words, by attacking the good object, the person is trying to ward off feelings of pain, vulnerability, dependency, and defectiveness that are evoked by recognizing the threatening goodness in another person. Envy can destroy the possibility for hope and diminish capacity for enjoyment." ~Elsa Ronningstam, Understanding and Identifying the Narcissistic Personality

She also writes: "Malicious envy, which is followed by pain and feelings of inferiority, involves a wish to eliminate or destroy what one is not able to possess and destructive efforts can even be directed toward the other person's happiness, future accomplishments, and relationships."

In Drew Pinsky's book, The Mirror Effect, he writes: "In psychological terms, there is an important difference between envy and jealousy. Jealousy can be a mobilizing force: I want what you have and I'm going to figure out how to get it. Envy, on the other hand, involves direct aggression."

Let me repeat that last bit: "Envy, on the other hand, involves direct aggression: I want what you have, and it makes me feel bad. so I'm going to take it from you, or at least knock you down to my size. Envy, thus, is far more toxic than simple jealousy." ~Drew Pinsky, the Mirror Effect, page 160

I use to hate the Momster who tried to destroy my life, but now I pity her. Hate takes a tremendous amount of life energy to invest into someone who does not love you as Ns are simple not worth it. I would rather invest my energy into love because it yields greater returns. Hate just leaves one bankrupt if you over invest into it for an extended amount of time. It serves a purpose to protect you while you are in the KoN and motivate you to leave it. After you have discovered your LOL hate no longer has a purpose.

Ns are envious & jealous creatures. Ns are not jealous of everyone, only those who threaten their false Counterfeit image who they would like to be like, who they envy, thus their jealousy and attacks are personal. The Momster is jealous of a lot of people that is why she hurts many people, but there are those whom she is not jealous of and does not attack once again demonstrating that the attacks from Ns are personal. I know there are people who want to believe that these attacks are not personal, that the poor pathological Ns can not help themselves, they are emotionally retarded and we should have empathy for them. They are not cognitively retarded they are emotionally retard and the difference is choice and control. They do have a choice to attack or not and they precisely choose when and whom to attack, thus it is very personal.

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg24410.html#msg24410

Many Ns thrive off of pathological competitiveness. When they feel that they can not compete & conquer then the resentment and contempt towards us take over. This is why if you take a N boss out on the golf course you have got to let him win, otherwise. . . you lose your job, account, promotion, etc.

Jealousy is to Envy as Resent is to Contempt.

What do you suppose fuels Jealousy and Envy What makes a N want the possessions &/or qualities of others?

Hint: it is found in the last Commandment, as in Thou Shall Not . . .
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/covet

"To covet is to have the strong desire for the possession of others' specific personal properties or relationships, going beyond simply admiring someone Else's possessions or thinking "I'd like to have one of those." Coveting includes envy - resenting the fact that others have what you don't."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_Bible_mean_by_'thou_shall_not_covet_thy_neighbour's_wife'

I don't see Jealousy as a healthy trait or desire because it can and often does lead to Envy. Jealousy and Envy are about control and wanting to posses what someone Else has (i.e., covet) and something that is or perceived asunobtainable to Self. It is about a longing for something they can not achieve on their own. It is about a State of Neediness which Ns severely detest, because it opens them up to the potential of being rejected which is their greatest fear, aka Fear of Abandonment. Their motto is, Discard or be Discarded. They are on constant look out for back-up supply so that they never run out. As soon as the N experiences Jealousy the Devaluing Process/Stage begins, because you can not be jealous of someone who you don't value. The onset of the Devaluing indicates a better source has been found because they would never devalue someone whom they truly feel would abandon them and they can only be abandoned if they don't have a replacement source already lined up. For normal people, abandonment is person specific, in that someone of extreme importance (Spouse/Parent/Close Friend) has to reject us to feel abandoned. However, for a N they only feel abandoned if they run out of back-up Sources/Supply. This is the reason they are not heartbroken or devastated after a relationship ends and can walk away like nothing ever happened.

When I see someone who has a talent/skill that I have not acquired and highly value I am inspired by them and I am motivated to learn more to improve my abilities. I admire and appreciate the talents of others. Jealousy leads to devaluing and degrading the skills of others. Ns lack the ability to admire others because that would mean they would have to be humble & comfortable with the reality of someone else being better than them at a particular thing. Being better means having more power in the mind of a N and more power means more control. Thus, Ns are grandiose because they can not give up that sense of control & power over others.

When we are jealous of others are we not devaluing ourselves and the taking for granted the blessings we have in our own lives?

For me it is very important to identify things helpful (good) or hurtful (bad) because that is the only way I was able to accept reality about the Momster, the NFOO and escape the KoN.

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Lots of times we 'are' reacting to unconscious, unclaimed feelings and we don't even know it!~CZ

Totally get that 100%.
I understand the tendency to label something bad can lead some to avoidance where I look for the evidence. I look at emotions/desires as messengers. Some are friendly and some are not, but I listen to what they have to say. I don't know if I would consider Jealousy as a friend and ask her to sit down to tea (do appreciate the concept of not denying her existence), but I would definitely hear what she has to say to me and see if there is any validity. To me I have not found Jealousy to be very friendly, reliable, trustworthy, respectful, nor are her intentions honorable because she often, or usually lies. For example Jealousy says, Did you see that physically fit woman, look how great she looks, remember when you use to look that great? No that's right because when you where physically fit you never thought you looked great, too bad you didn't know then what you know now, you never felt beautiful, well now it's too late, that trained left the station and its going to take along time to come back. Yes, Jealousy likes to point out what you value and that you don't have it and makes you deal w/the loss. Jealousy then asks, Do you want to play my favorite game called Comparison? And when Jealousy is around I have been known to play her game and I use to lose every time. Over the years I have learned how to beat Jealousy at her own game some of the times. What I have learned is best not to play w/her because she cheats too! She reminds me what our society deems as Attractive & Sexy and I don't measure up, too short. Then she asks do you want to take another turn? Sure, my butts too big, that part too, and I hear Jealousy cheering me on, You're on a roll keep going! and I do until Jealousy holds all the cards and just when I think Game Over I have nothing more to lose, Jealousy says. . . let me introduce my Big Sister to ya, LettingGo meet Envy.
Then Jealousy whispers in my ear, oh by the way your H has that look in his eye tonight and wants to be romantic, Doesn't he know that you are hanging out w/us tonight? Just tell him you have a headache.

Yes, I know Jealousy all to well. I know the games she likes to play with me and how she cheats and lies to win. I do not like her, Sam I am. I do not like her here nor there, I do not like her any where. However, I do like her very distant cousin called Inspire who introduces me to Encourage, Desire, and Motivation which says take a dance class and have amazing sex w/your H tonight. Both Jealousy and Inspire bring the same message, but Jealousy's intentions are not Authentic, they are Counterfeit and Toxic. Jealousy offers destruction where Inspire offers improvement through empowerment.

It's nice to know that Jealousy even visits CZ and I know that even though you offer her some tea, you don't give her the guest bedroom. Wouldn't it be great if we could put arsenic in Jealousy's tea? Jealousy will not allow you to fully enjoy your Sis's summer peaches, but will remain quite and not say anything to Sis where as Envy will say to your Sis, last years crop was much sweeter. CZ I hope I can meet you IRL some day and we can have some delicious tea and fresh summer peach pie or cobbler ala mode of course!

Jealousy and Envy I know these b*tches. The Momster introduced them to me and they were my extended family members in the KoN. When they want to come for a visit I send them packing. Jealousy is known to sneak in from time to time. It is great when you have a best friend who can help you be on the look out for Jealousy and can help kick her to the curve.

CZ perhaps you and I know a different Jealousy or maybe I am not as far along this Healing Journey as you are so I can not appreciate her. To me she has been nothing but mean.

Counterfeit Love vs. Authentic Love

Counterfeit Love vs. Authentic Love

How do you tell the difference so that you can avoid being N-chanted by another insidious N?

My Best Friend was the first person in my life who showed me what Authentic Love was all about, so I married him.
What distinguishes him from the Counterfeits I N-countered in my life, those that I lived w/in the KON, those that I became friends with and those I dated?

The two main traits/characteristics that Ns lack are Empathy and Remorse, so Authentic Love would definitelyincluded these very essential ingredients. What else can we add to the list?

The very first thing that comes to mind when I think about my Best Friend is he has a quality that the others lack, which is Honor. How does one describe Honor?

—Synonyms
1. probity, uprightness. Honor, honesty, integrity, sincerity refer to the highest moral principles and the absence of deceit or fraud. Honor denotes a fine sense of, and a strict conformity to, what is considered morally right or due: a high sense of honor; on one's honor. Honesty denotes the presence of probity and particularly the absence of deceit or fraud, esp. in business dealings: uncompromising honesty and trustworthiness. Integrity indicates a soundness of moral principle that no power or influence can impair: a man of unquestioned integrity and dependability. Sincerity implies absence of dissimulation or deceit, and a strong adherence to truth: His sincerity was evident in every word. 3. deference, homage; reverence, veneration. Honor, consideration, distinction refer to the regard in which one is held by others. Honor suggests a combination of liking and respect: His colleagues held him in great honor. Consideration suggests honor because of proved worth: a man worthy of the highest consideration. Distinction suggests particular honor because of qualities or accomplishments: She achieved distinction as a violinist at an early age. 5. distinction. 13. esteem, venerate.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/honor

What Distinguishes Counterfeit Love vs. Authentic Love?

Whether or not you have found Authentic Love in your life,

What other characteristics would you say separate Counterfeit Love from Authentic Love?
(If you could put them in bold type that would be great!)

For Great Feedback & Wisdom on this topic go here:

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7242.0.html