http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7429.msg27521.html#msg27521
"Envy-prone people who experience goodness in another person feel the goodness to be painfully insufficient and resent both their own dependency upon the other and the other's control over the goodness. Envy is defined as hatred directed toward good objects. Compared to 'regular' hatred, in which the good object is protected [and] the bad object is attacked, in hatred with primitive envy another's goodness is experienced as a threat to the person's own grandiosity or idealized self-experience,and the goodness is destroyed. In other words, by attacking the good object, the person is trying to ward off feelings of pain, vulnerability, dependency, and defectiveness that are evoked by recognizing the threatening goodness in another person. Envy can destroy the possibility for hope and diminish capacity for enjoyment." ~Elsa Ronningstam, Understanding and Identifying the Narcissistic Personality
She also writes: "Malicious envy, which is followed by pain and feelings of inferiority, involves a wish to eliminate or destroy what one is not able to possess and destructive efforts can even be directed toward the other person's happiness, future accomplishments, and relationships."
In Drew Pinsky's book, The Mirror Effect, he writes: "In psychological terms, there is an important difference between envy and jealousy. Jealousy can be a mobilizing force: I want what you have and I'm going to figure out how to get it. Envy, on the other hand, involves direct aggression."
Let me repeat that last bit: "Envy, on the other hand, involves direct aggression: I want what you have, and it makes me feel bad. so I'm going to take it from you, or at least knock you down to my size. Envy, thus, is far more toxic than simple jealousy." ~Drew Pinsky, the Mirror Effect, page 160
She also writes: "Malicious envy, which is followed by pain and feelings of inferiority, involves a wish to eliminate or destroy what one is not able to possess and destructive efforts can even be directed toward the other person's happiness, future accomplishments, and relationships."
In Drew Pinsky's book, The Mirror Effect, he writes: "In psychological terms, there is an important difference between envy and jealousy. Jealousy can be a mobilizing force: I want what you have and I'm going to figure out how to get it. Envy, on the other hand, involves direct aggression."
Let me repeat that last bit: "Envy, on the other hand, involves direct aggression: I want what you have, and it makes me feel bad. so I'm going to take it from you, or at least knock you down to my size. Envy, thus, is far more toxic than simple jealousy." ~Drew Pinsky, the Mirror Effect, page 160
I use to hate the Momster who tried to destroy my life, but now I pity her. Hate takes a tremendous amount of life energy to invest into someone who does not love you as Ns are simple not worth it. I would rather invest my energy into love because it yields greater returns. Hate just leaves one bankrupt if you over invest into it for an extended amount of time. It serves a purpose to protect you while you are in the KoN and motivate you to leave it. After you have discovered your LOL hate no longer has a purpose.
Ns are envious & jealous creatures. Ns are not jealous of everyone, only those who threaten their false Counterfeit image who they would like to be like, who they envy, thus their jealousy and attacks are personal. The Momster is jealous of a lot of people that is why she hurts many people, but there are those whom she is not jealous of and does not attack once again demonstrating that the attacks from Ns are personal. I know there are people who want to believe that these attacks are not personal, that the poor pathological Ns can not help themselves, they are emotionally retarded and we should have empathy for them. They are not cognitively retarded they are emotionally retard and the difference is choice and control. They do have a choice to attack or not and they precisely choose when and whom to attack, thus it is very personal.
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7141.msg24410.html#msg24410
Many Ns thrive off of pathological competitiveness. When they feel that they can not compete & conquer then the resentment and contempt towards us take over. This is why if you take a N boss out on the golf course you have got to let him win, otherwise. . . you lose your job, account, promotion, etc.
Many Ns thrive off of pathological competitiveness. When they feel that they can not compete & conquer then the resentment and contempt towards us take over. This is why if you take a N boss out on the golf course you have got to let him win, otherwise. . . you lose your job, account, promotion, etc.
Jealousy is to Envy as Resent is to Contempt.
What do you suppose fuels Jealousy and Envy
What makes a N want the possessions &/or qualities of others?
Hint: it is found in the last Commandment, as in Thou Shall Not . . .
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/covet
"To covet is to have the strong desire for the possession of others' specific personal properties or relationships, going beyond simply admiring someone Else's possessions or thinking "I'd like to have one of those." Coveting includes envy - resenting the fact that others have what you don't."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_Bible_mean_by_'thou_shall_not_covet_thy_neighbour's_wife'
I don't see Jealousy as a healthy trait or desire because it can and often does lead to Envy. Jealousy and Envy are about control and wanting to posses what someone Else has (i.e., covet) and something that is or perceived asunobtainable to Self. It is about a longing for something they can not achieve on their own. It is about a State of Neediness which Ns severely detest, because it opens them up to the potential of being rejected which is their greatest fear, aka Fear of Abandonment. Their motto is, Discard or be Discarded. They are on constant look out for back-up supply so that they never run out. As soon as the N experiences Jealousy the Devaluing Process/Stage begins, because you can not be jealous of someone who you don't value. The onset of the Devaluing indicates a better source has been found because they would never devalue someone whom they truly feel would abandon them and they can only be abandoned if they don't have a replacement source already lined up. For normal people, abandonment is person specific, in that someone of extreme importance (Spouse/Parent/Close Friend) has to reject us to feel abandoned. However, for a N they only feel abandoned if they run out of back-up Sources/Supply. This is the reason they are not heartbroken or devastated after a relationship ends and can walk away like nothing ever happened.
When I see someone who has a talent/skill that I have not acquired and highly value I am inspired by them and I am motivated to learn more to improve my abilities. I admire and appreciate the talents of others. Jealousy leads to devaluing and degrading the skills of others. Ns lack the ability to admire others because that would mean they would have to be humble & comfortable with the reality of someone else being better than them at a particular thing. Being better means having more power in the mind of a N and more power means more control. Thus, Ns are grandiose because they can not give up that sense of control & power over others.
What do you suppose fuels Jealousy and Envy
What makes a N want the possessions &/or qualities of others?Hint: it is found in the last Commandment, as in Thou Shall Not . . .
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/covet
"To covet is to have the strong desire for the possession of others' specific personal properties or relationships, going beyond simply admiring someone Else's possessions or thinking "I'd like to have one of those." Coveting includes envy - resenting the fact that others have what you don't."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_the_Bible_mean_by_'thou_shall_not_covet_thy_neighbour's_wife'
I don't see Jealousy as a healthy trait or desire because it can and often does lead to Envy. Jealousy and Envy are about control and wanting to posses what someone Else has (i.e., covet) and something that is or perceived asunobtainable to Self. It is about a longing for something they can not achieve on their own. It is about a State of Neediness which Ns severely detest, because it opens them up to the potential of being rejected which is their greatest fear, aka Fear of Abandonment. Their motto is, Discard or be Discarded. They are on constant look out for back-up supply so that they never run out. As soon as the N experiences Jealousy the Devaluing Process/Stage begins, because you can not be jealous of someone who you don't value. The onset of the Devaluing indicates a better source has been found because they would never devalue someone whom they truly feel would abandon them and they can only be abandoned if they don't have a replacement source already lined up. For normal people, abandonment is person specific, in that someone of extreme importance (Spouse/Parent/Close Friend) has to reject us to feel abandoned. However, for a N they only feel abandoned if they run out of back-up Sources/Supply. This is the reason they are not heartbroken or devastated after a relationship ends and can walk away like nothing ever happened.
When I see someone who has a talent/skill that I have not acquired and highly value I am inspired by them and I am motivated to learn more to improve my abilities. I admire and appreciate the talents of others. Jealousy leads to devaluing and degrading the skills of others. Ns lack the ability to admire others because that would mean they would have to be humble & comfortable with the reality of someone else being better than them at a particular thing. Being better means having more power in the mind of a N and more power means more control. Thus, Ns are grandiose because they can not give up that sense of control & power over others.
When we are jealous of others are we not devaluing ourselves and the taking for granted the blessings we have in our own lives?
For me it is very important to identify things helpful (good) or hurtful (bad) because that is the only way I was able to accept reality about the Momster, the NFOO and escape the KoN.
I understand the tendency to label something bad can lead some to avoidance where I look for the evidence. I look at emotions/desires as messengers. Some are friendly and some are not, but I listen to what they have to say. I don't know if I would consider Jealousy as a friend and ask her to sit down to tea (do appreciate the concept of not denying her existence), but I would definitely hear what she has to say to me and see if there is any validity. To me I have not found Jealousy to be very friendly, reliable, trustworthy, respectful, nor are her intentions honorable because she often, or usually lies. For example Jealousy says, Did you see that physically fit woman, look how great she looks, remember when you use to look that great? No that's right because when you where physically fit you never thought you looked great, too bad you didn't know then what you know now, you never felt beautiful, well now it's too late, that trained left the station and its going to take along time to come back. Yes, Jealousy likes to point out what you value and that you don't have it and makes you deal w/the loss. Jealousy then asks, Do you want to play my favorite game called Comparison? And when Jealousy is around I have been known to play her game and I use to lose every time. Over the years I have learned how to beat Jealousy at her own game some of the times. What I have learned is best not to play w/her because she cheats too! She reminds me what our society deems as Attractive & Sexy and I don't measure up, too short. Then she asks do you want to take another turn? Sure, my butts too big, that part too, and I hear Jealousy cheering me on, You're on a roll keep going! and I do until Jealousy holds all the cards and just when I think Game Over I have nothing more to lose, Jealousy says. . . let me introduce my Big Sister to ya, LettingGo meet Envy.
Then Jealousy whispers in my ear, oh by the way your H has that look in his eye tonight and wants to be romantic, Doesn't he know that you are hanging out w/us tonight? Just tell him you have a headache.
Yes, I know Jealousy all to well. I know the games she likes to play with me and how she cheats and lies to win. I do not like her, Sam I am. I do not like her here nor there, I do not like her any where.
However, I do like her very distant cousin called Inspire who introduces me to Encourage, Desire, and Motivation which says take a dance class and have amazing sex w/your H tonight. 
Both Jealousy and Inspire bring the same message, but Jealousy's intentions are not Authentic, they are Counterfeit and Toxic. Jealousy offers destruction where Inspire offers improvement through empowerment.
It's nice to know that Jealousy even visits CZ and I know that even though you offer her some tea, you don't give her the guest bedroom. Wouldn't it be great if we could put arsenic in Jealousy's tea? Jealousy will not allow you to fully enjoy your Sis's summer peaches, but will remain quite and not say anything to Sis where as Envy will say to your Sis, last years crop was much sweeter. CZ I hope I can meet you IRL some day and we can have some delicious tea and fresh summer peach pie or cobbler ala mode of course!
Jealousy and Envy I know these b*tches. The Momster introduced them to me and they were my extended family members in the KoN. When they want to come for a visit I send them packing. Jealousy is known to sneak in from time to time. It is great when you have a best friend who can help you be on the look out for Jealousy and can help kick her to the curve.
CZ perhaps you and I know a different Jealousy or maybe I am not as far along this Healing Journey as you are so I can not appreciate her. To me she has been nothing but mean.
For me it is very important to identify things helpful (good) or hurtful (bad) because that is the only way I was able to accept reality about the Momster, the NFOO and escape the KoN.
Quote
Lots of times we 'are' reacting to unconscious, unclaimed feelings and we don't even know it!~CZ
Totally get that 100%.I understand the tendency to label something bad can lead some to avoidance where I look for the evidence. I look at emotions/desires as messengers. Some are friendly and some are not, but I listen to what they have to say. I don't know if I would consider Jealousy as a friend and ask her to sit down to tea (do appreciate the concept of not denying her existence), but I would definitely hear what she has to say to me and see if there is any validity. To me I have not found Jealousy to be very friendly, reliable, trustworthy, respectful, nor are her intentions honorable because she often, or usually lies. For example Jealousy says, Did you see that physically fit woman, look how great she looks, remember when you use to look that great? No that's right because when you where physically fit you never thought you looked great, too bad you didn't know then what you know now, you never felt beautiful, well now it's too late, that trained left the station and its going to take along time to come back. Yes, Jealousy likes to point out what you value and that you don't have it and makes you deal w/the loss. Jealousy then asks, Do you want to play my favorite game called Comparison? And when Jealousy is around I have been known to play her game and I use to lose every time. Over the years I have learned how to beat Jealousy at her own game some of the times. What I have learned is best not to play w/her because she cheats too! She reminds me what our society deems as Attractive & Sexy and I don't measure up, too short. Then she asks do you want to take another turn? Sure, my butts too big, that part too, and I hear Jealousy cheering me on, You're on a roll keep going! and I do until Jealousy holds all the cards and just when I think Game Over I have nothing more to lose, Jealousy says. . . let me introduce my Big Sister to ya, LettingGo meet Envy.
Then Jealousy whispers in my ear, oh by the way your H has that look in his eye tonight and wants to be romantic, Doesn't he know that you are hanging out w/us tonight? Just tell him you have a headache.
Yes, I know Jealousy all to well. I know the games she likes to play with me and how she cheats and lies to win. I do not like her, Sam I am. I do not like her here nor there, I do not like her any where.
However, I do like her very distant cousin called Inspire who introduces me to Encourage, Desire, and Motivation which says take a dance class and have amazing sex w/your H tonight. Both Jealousy and Inspire bring the same message, but Jealousy's intentions are not Authentic, they are Counterfeit and Toxic. Jealousy offers destruction where Inspire offers improvement through empowerment.It's nice to know that Jealousy even visits CZ and I know that even though you offer her some tea, you don't give her the guest bedroom. Wouldn't it be great if we could put arsenic in Jealousy's tea? Jealousy will not allow you to fully enjoy your Sis's summer peaches, but will remain quite and not say anything to Sis where as Envy will say to your Sis, last years crop was much sweeter. CZ I hope I can meet you IRL some day and we can have some delicious tea and fresh summer peach pie or cobbler ala mode of course!
Jealousy and Envy I know these b*tches. The Momster introduced them to me and they were my extended family members in the KoN. When they want to come for a visit I send them packing. Jealousy is known to sneak in from time to time. It is great when you have a best friend who can help you be on the look out for Jealousy and can help kick her to the curve.
CZ perhaps you and I know a different Jealousy or maybe I am not as far along this Healing Journey as you are so I can not appreciate her. To me she has been nothing but mean.
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