Conscious or Unconscious Attacks/Abuse

I am very conflicted right now. Although I wrote about Life in the KoN is about a Two-Projection I am considering an alternative hypothesis to why Ns attack based on conflicting evidence to traditional theories.

There are theories that suggest that Ns attack out of 'unconscious defenses'. That they are unaware of what they are doing when they attack.

Where is the Empirical Data proving this Theory?

The evidence does not support the theory of 'unconscious defenses' because Ns target certain individuals. If the their defenses were truly unconscious, the attacks would not be Target/Victim Specific. For example a Superior such as a Supervisor would elicit feelings of inferiority, jealousy, envy, insecurities, etc., and as stated in a previous article What They Covet They Attack, so as theory goes they should attack their Supervisors, but they don't. Only the Stupid ones talk behind their bosses back to Co-Workers, but even the Stupid Ns learn through Trial & Error to correct their behavior and keep the Trash Talking of the Boss for their family and/or outside friends who will not report back to the Boss, so the Ns can avoid the Natural Consequence of getting fired.

When researchers test out their theory in the real world they are guilty of Confirmation Bias, finding evidence to support their theory, or twisting the interpretation of the evidence to support their theory instead of looking at the evidence that does not support and actually contradicts their theory.

Another reason I do not like the theory of 'unconscious defenses' is that it lacks responsibility & accountability and promotes further victimization, "poor pathologicals" can't help themselves, they are unaware of what they are doing. BS! They know exactly what they are doing, because they only attack certain people. EVERY N from the low level to the Super-Sized N/P attacks because they enjoy the attack (at least in the moment of attack, there is a payoff otherwise they wouldn't attack, it wouldn't be rewarding), lower levels will might verbalize regret & remorse, but very few actually mean it because very few actually stop attacking. They might be able to resist attacking a certain target for a certain duration, but the attacks eventually resume.

(The following happened, Nov. 29th Thanksgiving Weekend)

Let me take this moment to expose my sin, imperfection, or Shadow Self. I have never devalued my DD. I have never attacked her by calling her a name, or making her feel Lesser-Than. I wish I could say the same about my DH, but I can not. I have attacked him through name calling (in the past), attacked his role as Husband & Father (last night ). It was not so much what I said, but rather how I said it, and in the moment the intent was to hurt/shame/guilt, whatever name you want to give it, it was not done in a moment of Love w/the purest of intentions, otherwise I would have praised him and lift him up for all the great ways he is an Amazing Husband & Father and lovingly pointed out things he can work on (we can both work on). I would have implemented the Golden Rule, and instead I broke it by devaluing him and bringing him down. An attack is an attack whether or not we feel justified. Sure I can try to justify it by saying I felt like he betrayed me when he immediately didn't defend me against his NF, how dare him have weak boundaries (some Projection perhaps), and I was protecting Ego, Provoked by Pain, perhaps Transference was occurring for not being protected as a child, bad learned behaviors left over from the KoN, there are many excuses available to deflect the responsibility of the attacker/offender (me) etc. I had no right to attack him by attacking his boundaries & character & accuse him of not defending his family. This happened just last night. I could have gotten the same message across in a loving way, but I did not, I let it build up for an entire day, when we were both tired last night from sleep deprivation and dealing w/a sick child, extreme financial pressures, etc. I let it out. Sure I was "not nearly as bad as the Momster", but "not nearly as bad" is still not good enough. My Ego and my Pride would love to say it was all due to 'unconscious defenses'. But I would be lying to you and to myself to once again defend the Ego. I can not allow myself to play the Unconscious Card in order to make myself feel better for what I have done. The Holy Handbook says, be angry, but sin not. I let my anger, my pain get the worst of me. Now the difference, HUGE difference, between myself and a N is that I feel guilt, shame, regret, and remorse (which will motivate me to keep changing for the better) because I Authentically Love my DH and have empathy for what I did to him. Even in this very moment, as I am writing, I have to resist defending Ego and say there is a difference between the N's unprovoked attack and my provoked attack. Sure the difference is both in theory & reality, but in a Loving Relationship I can not rely on theory I need to be responsible & accountable for the bad choice I made last night.

Backstory:

Saturday we spent w/the Family Turkey's having our Thanksgiving w/DH's FOO. DH, DD and myself had our own Special Time on Thursday (we are creating our own Family Tradition), but it is also important to DH to have a Traditional Thanksgiving. There are two clear Ns in his FOO (the youngest Golden Child and the NF). During Dessert time DD was coughing, NF is a germaphobe. It was a very interesting case study of how Ns vs Non-Ns handle the same stressful situation of a child coughing at the Family Table. While everyone spoke the same basic words to DD, cover your mouth when you cough, cough into your arm, etc. the delivery in which the words were spoken were VERY different. The N's tones & non-verbal expressions were sharp, full of judgement and condescending while the Non-Ns my other Sis, my Bro, my MiL, my DH and myself used terms of affection "Baby girl, Sweetheart, Honey and in a respectable loving tone gave my DD the same message to cover her mouth when she coughed. Sure the situation was frustrating to all of us adults, but some spoke out of love and others out of anger. I consider how the Ns treated my DD as attacking w/ambient abuse. It is not what they said, but rather how they said it to her. Were the Ns concerned about helping my DD or worried about the potential germs getting on their Apple Pie, or how dare a 3 yr. old ruin their perfect image of the Family Table by coughing. Thing is they would NEVER treat other person who they valued in such a disrespecting way. I met the Golden Child when she was about the same age as my DD is now and nFIL did not ever talk to his Golden Child this way, nor did he talk to my other Sister's step child this way. Where was the compassion for a sick little 3 yr. old who just wanted to hang out w/her family? Oh yes, there were Ns at the table. As I told my DH last night, I am not so much mad at the Ns, because they are Ns and they are self-absorbed & attack when things are not to their standard and people are not behaving exactly as they want them to, what angers and pains me is that my DH and myself didn't address NF and ask him, Where would you like [daughter's name], and us to eat our pie since being here at the table w/you is frustrating you. It is not just my DH's responsibly to keep his boundaries strong, but mine as well. And this is what pizzes me off the most, we failed to protect our child from Ambient Attacks. The good news is that DH's is going to address this issue w/his parents. I pointed out that it is quite astonishing that with all the combined High IQ's sitting at that table no one had the common sense to suggest an alternative option, instead they choose to repeatedly attack a defenseless 3 yr old. Christmas Dinner is suppose to be at our home, so if there is a sniffle or a cough we will let everyone know and the Ns can make the choice to stay home. Thanks for Listening.

Theory states that the narcissist is unconsciously battling with him/herself internally to keep all unwanted and unacceptable aspects of the true self dormant and locked away, and when they attack their victim for mirroring back reality of their true self (their flawed self) they are really unconsciously attacking their self which they again unconsciously project on to us.

Since we can not read a Ns mind theories are based on assumptions about the N. We assume that this is what is going on in their disordered mind when they select a victim. Again I believe we are guilty of Projection, because if we were the Disordered this is what we would be thinking or not thinking. In theory when Ns are attacking us (their projected self) they are really attacking themselves. I accepted that reasoning and use to agree with that, because it made sense in theory. Seemed logical enough. But I don't think that is the complete picture. I believe they attack us, because they know we are less N-chanted w/their True Self and because They Detest who we are which is a constant reminder of what they are not. If we go w/the theory of the N projecting his/her true self onto us and that is who s/he is attacking, then we don't have to take their attacks personal. It's not really me that the N is attacking. The evidence does not support that theory, because the Ns attacks are Victim Specific. Rather the Alternative Theory or Hypothesis that the attacks are personal because They Detest who we are, not what we represent in theory (the Ns projected self) is more accurate & valid.

If their defenses are automatically/unconsciously elicited, then again why are their attacks Victim Specific. Why don't they project their lies onto the Golden Child, Friends, or their Boss and attack them? The Golden Children, Friends and the Bosses don't always mirror back to the N his/her ideal self, yet they are not attacked and we are. We Scapegoats/Targets are told that it is because we are a broken mirror and do not reflect back to the N their False Self, so the N attacks (which I also believed & wrote about on my blog) -- yet the Golden Child and the Boss do the same thing and they are not attacked. I use to think that the Golden Children only or predominately mirrored back to the N his/her Ideal Self and therefore saved themselves from being a target, but that is not the case. I have seen Golden Children not mirror back the False Self to the N and actually be harsh and publicly shame the N, yet the N does not retaliate.

When we don't understand something, can not fully explain something, or do not want to consider an Alternative Reason (the N is evil, intent to harm) we say that it is Unconscious. In the field of Psychology where all theories of behavior come from people deny the concept of true evil. They prefer terms such as Mentally Ill, even psychopaths, instead of the simplified term of evil. However, I have noticed that in Self Help areas the term evil is more and more accepted and used to accurately describe N. I don't know if it has reached the Ivory Towers yet, but at least people are using a term that was once forbidden.

Here is a Blog Post from Cheshire about the N's Private & Public behavior in regards to how they threat others, Click Here.

Life in the KoN is about a Two-Way Projection

It has now been over a year of NC from the KoN (Kingdom of N) at least in regards to the N who controlled the KoN. The aftermath of breaking free from the Enablers took a little longer. The only slight connection I have w/the KoN is a very limited Hallmark relationship w/the lowest level N. The best advice I have ever received, and I have received a lot, while I was Escaping & Healing from the KoN was to be A Friend to Self. Sounds simple, but extremely hard for us who were born into the KoN where Nism was our normal, we lived to serve the Ns and our Self was denied by the Nparents and we did not know how to protect Self. Whether or not you choose NC to be a permanent Life Choice or just a temporary one until you can heal from the KoN it is definitely a necessary one to gain a healthy perspective and get out of the FOG of the KoN. Here is a great thread that can provide some insight to your KoN, it might help explain where all the confusion and FOG comes from. Click Here.

Another great piece of advice I received is accepting that Self-Care is Not being Self-Absorbed like the Ns. In the KoN our True Self is denied & a false Less-Than self is created by the N. Everything is hyper-focused on pleasing the Ns (which we all know is impossible due to their pathology, or evil nature) and denying Self (self-expression, protection, care, worth, esteem, etc). It is about supporting the Grand Illusion that the N is superior and we are inferior, because if we ever realized we were the N's Equal (or in Reality their Superior due to their lack of humanity), then we would Escape the KoN. And our Escape, our Freedom from the KoN is the N's greatest Fear. The fear of being left alone w/out a Victim, and w/out the supporting cast of the Enablers to support the Grand Illusion. However, Ns are on a constant hunt for replaceable Source, both Enablers and Victims to feed or be their NS. When Ns disclose their Fears of Being Alone, Rejected, or Abandoned we believe it is the same as our Fears of Being Alone, Rejected, or Abandoned, but it is Not. Our fear comes from not having someone to love and their fear comes from not having someone to abuse. Their fear is that the Grand Illusion will be obliterated and the entire World will discover the Truth, that they, not us, are a worthless piece of toxic crap. Does that sound a bit harsh? Then my friend your empathy is the N's hook that keeps you connected to their KoN (been there, done that). It is our projected humanity that keeps us from realizing the N's true evil nature & identity.

Escaping & Healing from the KoN begins w/focusing on and discovering your True Self. In the KoN our lives revolve around reacting to the Ns & their toxic behavior, instead of being proactive and focusing on what we need and want regardless of what N thinks about it. Does this feel a bit Selfish and N? If so, that is left over brainwashing, Projected Lies from the N that keep us from Escaping their KoN. Self-Care is Healthy and it is about Survival opposed to being Self-Absorbed and abusing others. There is a direct Cause & Effect in that the further you get away from the KoN the closer you get to Self. NC is not a decision you have to set in stone. The more you discover Self and that you have intrinsic value the more you can empower Self to make decisions on what you want to do in your life and what are clearly toxic to you and you want to avoid. Your decisions are based on Truth and not Fear, Obligation or Guilt (FOG).

One Myth I must dispel is that Ns (even NMs) don't believe what they say when they say something mean, devaluing, and objectifying -- they absolutely w/out a doubt believe what they say, because they detest us. They are envy of what we are and they are not, which is loving & caring human beings. Our mere existence is a constant reminder of what they can never achieve, having a loving soul & forming deep loving connections w/others. With Ns whatever they envy, whatever they covet they attack. In the KoN you must realize there are Two Mindsets, the Normal one (ours) and the Pathological one (theirs). The N mind is not normal, yet we normals expect the abnormal to act normal. It is very easy to call ourselves crazy for expecting abnormals to think and behave normally. We must keep in mind that their disguise is EXTREMELY deceptive. They look human, therefore we think they are human because we project our humanity onto them. (There is a Must See Tv show simply called V that demonstrates this point perfectly).

Life in the KoN is about Two-Way Projection. The Ns project their True Identity (horrible beings) onto us, so we feel worthless, when in fact they are the ones who are truly worthless. They use our strongest characteristic against us which is our Empathy. We actually feel sorry for them feeling worthless & Lesser-Than when they act like or play the victim, because we know what it is to actually be the victim and to feel worthless & Lesser-Than. We feel sorry for our abusers, poor pathologicals. Our Empathy is their hook & keeps us connected to the KoN.

Now our turn, we project our humanity onto them. When they appear to do something kind we think it is w/good intentions because we have good intentions. However, Ns are self-serving and do not have good intentions. Because you are a great Mama you remind the NM everything she is not & was not (same thing applies in regards to the Nspouse, or any other N). Their pathological, wicked mind will not allow them to reciprocate admiration, so instead they must create an Illusion of our inferiority. In reality we are not the one who is Inferior, rather they are. Like wise with our projection onto them, they are not kind, thoughtful, etc we are, their great characteristics are not theirs, they are ours that we project onto them and their terrible characteristics that they project onto us are not ours, but theirs that they project onto us. Make sense? I know it is a little confusing at first.

The KoN gets its power from the Dance of the Projection from both Predator & Prey. It is the Interaction of Projection that keeps the KoN alive.

The best way I found to escape the KoN is to break the Illusions. Some of the Illusions are created by the Ns and others are created by us (our projected humanity onto the Ns). And for me the toughest ones to break were the Illusions that Ns have No Control of their hurtful behavior when in fact They have Absolute Control. They do not really Choose to hurt us (it is only their illness, their pathology) when in fact They Do Choose to Hurt Us. They don't Intend to hurt us when in fact They Do Intend to hurt us. Their attacks are Very Intentional. They don't Realize what they are doing when in factThey Do Fully Realize They Attack And They Know What They Are Doing. And they don't really enjoy causing us pain when in fact They Really Do Enjoy Causing Pain. They Continue to Attack, because They Enjoy the Attack. They enjoy hurting their own child or loved one, and that is why Ns, Especially NMs, are a freak of nature.

One theory is that Ns are Emotional Retards and that is one that I believed for quite awhile. However, now that I have been NC I am considering another theory. The term "retard" implies that Ns have no control and just have to attack us, they can't help themselves, they can't stop themselves, and they don't understand what they are doing, as a Friend of mine says, "No Depth Perception". However, when I test that theory out I find there is No Evidence for that when the facts are that Ns only attack certainindividuals. They choose their Victim, they choose the Place for the attack, they choose When they will attack, and they choose How & they choose to What Extent they will attack. And they choose to continue to attack, because they enjoy attacking, they enjoy abusing those they should love, but don't. We can not teach them to love, because they have no desire to love, because if they did they wouldn't enjoy the attack. They love to attack.

Ever ask yourself Why do they attack? Click Here.

Here is another thread about Ns and NMs, CZ has an AMAZING Gift at explaining things, Click Here.

Clear & Present Danger to Others

DONM members you are in danger. Danu is not who she appears to be. The following information comes from one of the original DONM (Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers) Moderators who knows firsthand how evil Danu is to fellow DONM members. I can confirm that Danu's real name is Tracy Culleton. I pray more and more former DONM's members will come forward to share what they know.

There are Three, Yikes! Another one was just discovered, there are Now Four Smoking Guns that prove this NVamp is a Clear and Present Danger to Others.

The Confirmed & Verifiable Evidence (aka Four Smoking Guns) keeps adding up to expose the NVamp in Sheep's Clothing who refers to her own members/customers as "food", to be trapped, hunted, or farmed. See how the evidence keeps adding up, and how this Counterfeit lies to cover-up what she has said and done to hurt others, Click Here.

Let me add one more very Dangerous Person to this list. She was/is a moderator of Danu's/Tracy's KoN and she admitted to me that she knows that Danu & Light target certain individuals and their Code of Conduct is very deceiving in that people should not be attacked for what they believe. She told me she knows Danu has attacked other DONM members before I became a member and she resigned her position as Moderator (I now question whether or not that was the truth). Along with Light this person promotes Danu as a "Healer" when they both know she is an abuser of her own members. This present/former moderator went by the name of Grace (real name Diane Gorman). Her agenda is to make money off of the DONM members by selling her book & workbook to them, called The Seven Lessons. She deceives people by saying it is "transformational", and the only thing I can see it doing is transforming her into an Enabler, or more accurately a covert N by using people for her own financial gain. She has admitted to me that what Danu & Light do to other members behind closed doors is wrong and she says she has talked to Danu about it, but Grace has not left the DONM forum as far as I know. I do not break the anonymity of a person, unless they are a serious Danger to Others and I truly believe Grace/Diane is a Danger to Others. She Victim Blamed me in a very insidious way that only a true N can pull off by the victim actually thinking the N is trying to "help" her see how she contributed to her victimization. In other words what I could have done different to prevent being attacked & abused. The responsibility is solely on the Abuser not to Abuse. Diane needs to ask & require Danu/Tracy to do things differently and not attack others. Tracy, like all Cult Leaders is very charismatic and has the gift to tell you just what you need to hear, so that she appears to be an educated, insightful, understanding & trustworthy person. She told me it was both her professional & personal opinion that I am a talented & gifted writer, and that she was surprised I never thought of writing and thought that I was not very good at it. She had the ability to tap into a passion I never knew I had and only recently realized by communicating w/other DONM members, starting my own Blog and joining A Safe, Healthy, Encouraging, Very Enjoyable & Inspirational On-line Support Group, WebofNarcissism.com. At the DONM forum, I enjoyed my interactions w/many great women and that is why I continued to stay even though it became very clear that Danu/Tracy had placed a neon target on my back and it was only a matter of time before I was Unjustly Banned. During the attacks from Danu/Tracy I thought Grace/Diane was a sympathetic & understanding friend, but I was greatly deceived by her. There are no reasons nor excuses that can justify Danu/Tracy's attacks. While Danu & Light were attacking me Grace/Diane sent me her Seven Steps via pdf, and volunteered to personally mentor me through the Seven Steps, so she could "help" me "not be so fearful". Turns out I had a lot to be fearful of such as when Ns & Ps get away w/Murder by not leaving any fingerprints behind. I never had any fear for myself, only what these Evil Charlatans could do to very vulnerable people who are desperate for a Friend, Leader, and Healer.

Message from Kate:

I found your blog today purely by accident, but I'm so glad that I did.

I was one of the original moderators on Danu's DONM forum, and have my own story to tell, as do many other women who have been hurt by this wolf in sheep's clothing.

The site is basically run by Danu (real name, Tracy Culleton) and Light (Michelle) who are both severely disturbed women. Tracy has no training in psychology, is not an expert on narcissism, and created the site as a money making venture pushing her EFT.

I first met her on Karyl McBride's forum for DONMs, which Danu was using as feeding grounds for new EFT customers. There were many red flags about Tracy from the very beginning, and she was actually publically accused by another member of being a narcissist. The group there did not have a moderator so it was a bit like the Wild West, enter at your own risk.

Tracy was love-bombing the members that she felt would be helpful to her business aspirations, starting and maintaining off site friendships with these women, many of whom thought they were her new Best Friend, not realizing the others were receiving the same treatment. I was one of the major voices on that site, and was sought after by Tracy as well. We emailed back and forth daily for almost a year. I am sorry to say that I ignored the red flags; I was just beginning the difficult healing process of separating from my family of origin and Tracy stepped into the gap in my life left by those losses.

The result of the other member confronting Tracy/Danu on her issues is that it effectively split the group. Tracy started her own site/forum and a handful of us went with her. There were four original moderators, including Tracy/Danu.

I won't go into my story of how I became aware that I was participating in a giant scam, what ended up happening is that I decided to quit, but Tracy needed the last word and so I was fired and banned from the forum. There are many articles in the self help part of the forum that I either wrote, or copy/pasted from other sites. Within a week after I left, my name disappeared from those articles and they were attributed to others.

I was a bit at loose ends after this experience, angry, confused, and blaming myself. I reconnected with some of the other women I'd met on Dr. McBride's site, and lo and behold...many of them had also had bad/terrible experiences with Tracy.

(breaking post into two...tried to post and it was too long)

There is currently a group of women on FB who have an under the radar type of group...all of them victimized in one way or another by Tracy. Your story is a familiar one. I believe there is a revolving door or women being banned from that forum for bogus and/or arbitrary reasons.

It is very interesting to me that Tracy's hatred of Christians has become so pronounced. Since she's from Ireland, her only experience with organized religion is with the Roman Catholic church, but she uses a very broad brush to color all people of faith.

In my very first phone conversation with her she jumped all over my beliefs. I had identified myself on the blog as a Christian, not in an obnoxious or pushy way, it just came up in my posts when I shared. Tracy attempted to tear into my beliefs on the phone, which I politely sidestepped. That conversation was full of red flags, looking at it in hindsight.

There are so many other women who have walked in your shoes. Women who are angry and wish they could expose this fraud for who she is.

A lot of bad things happened on TCs watch. A forum member committed suicide. It was hushed up, because Tracy/Michelle didn't want the members to get upset. This woman was someone that TC had "befriended" on Dr. McBride's site. This woman had had a horrendous childhood and had already been hospitalized for a previous suicide attempt. TC believed that she could cure her with EFT.

Another friend of mine was bullied into doing EFT with TC, the subject being the woman's molestatation by her father. It is stated on professional EFT sites that it is best to leave the deeply traumatized to the care of a therapist, and to use great caution in opening up really deep wounds. TC strong armed my friend into agreeing to the EFT and then proceeded to stomp on her soul with hobnail boots. The friend ended up in severe emotional distress and told TC that she did not want to continue. She was strong-armed into another session, and then hounded to write up "testimonials" for the DONM forum website and for TCs EFT website. Despite the women's expressed worry about her abusive family finding it on the internet, TC posted the "testimonial" with the woman's full name and location.

The last time I checked, TC(known to you as Danu Morrigan, wasn't that a red flag that she wouldn't even disclose her real name?) has at least 13 websites, all coming from a different angle, but with the same motivation. Making money. On her business marketing site she refers to potential customers as *food*, to be trapped, hunted, or farmed.

I am not a mental health expert, but I would peg TC and Michelle as textbook Ns.

TCs EFT credentials aren't that great either. The last I checked she had the equivalent of several weekend seminars of instruction.

I thought about posting this anonymously, but I can't make that work, so let the chips fall where they may. I would be glad to talk with you via email. Let me know if that is something you would be interested in. There is a growing community of women who have all had similar experiences and I'm sure they would be more than welcoming to you if you'd like to process this with others who have been there.

What is the penalty for a Soul Murder?

Today I post the following info on the Oprah Message Board and I wanted to share it w/my friends. I pray Oprah gets my message.

Last Friday's Oprah show was Classic Oprah and demonstrates why she is the unbeatable Talk Show Host. I want to say thank you Oprah for continuing to have World Changing Programs. Most of all I want to say Thank You to the Amazing 200 Brave Souls that shared their painful past with others and I pray by doing so they have removed the deadly shame (that Oprah Show member reginapug talked about in her post) and hopefully each one of these Brave 201 Men (including Tyler) and one brave woman, Oprah, and anyone else that reads this post will realize that the shame belongs to our abusers. Reginapug thak you for sharing just how deadly shame can be. I often thought that death would be better than an abusive life. And even when the evil acts against me ended the psychological & emotional pain lasted long after the abuse was over. It was too much to handle at times and Suicide feels like it will be a welcome relief when you can't hold the pain any longer. When Death is better than Life. For anyone who feels Suicide is the answer I promise you it is not. Life does get better just beyond our Horizon Line. Do not let evil steal the Joy & Peace of Authentic Love that will come into your Life. I have found it and so will you. It is worth enduring the very painful present, because the suffering & pain will eventually will pass. You are worth holding on to.

Oprah I agree with you 100% that Sexual Abuse [and may I add other types of abuse] plants the seed of inferiority & worthlessness and then that inferiority & worthlessness shapes the way you start to think about yourself and the way you act and act out. It forever changes the child we use to be and the adult we could have been. Abuse that wounds so very deeply can heal, but even in the best cases, it does leave an ugly scar. The mere memory of our Nightmare is that Hideous Scar. With fantastic intervention the suffering & pain can end. We can heal from the pain of the past so that it does not rob us of Today or contaminate our Tomorrow. The wound is healed, yet the Scar remains.

There is a strong & crucial connection between the show Oprah did with the Molesters/Monsters and their victims. When one of the Monsters talked about his victim he said, "I killed who she could have been. I killed a person" Tyler said the child died and he was correct. The life of that child, free-from abuse, innocent, filled w/Joy, Hope, & Peace died that day. 1 of the 200 Brave Men said and others agreed, "I feel like I was murdered."

So where do we go from here? Oprah and Tyler may I suggest that you combine your resources to change the Law of our Land, so that there is NO Statute of Limitation for the heinous crime of Child Abuse. Child Abuse should have NO Statue of Limitation, like Murder, because like Tyler said, the Monster murdered that innocent child w/in him that day. There should be NO Statue of Limitation for a Slaughtered Soul.

Heinous crimes
Crimes that are considered exceptionally heinous by society have no statute of limitations. As a rule, murder (especially capital murder or first degree murder) has no statute of limitations. Child Abuse is a heinous crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_limitations

There is no Statue of Limitation to our pain, so there should be none for their crime. By placing a Statue of Limitation to crimes of Child Abuse allows the Monsters to get away with a Soul Murder. The Abuser's crime is not only against the victim they attack, but it is also a crime against Humanity. The Monster attacks the victim and forever murders the child s/he was and also murders the Friend, Student, Employee, Boss, Co-worker, Spouse, Parent s/he could have been. The crime of Child Abuse should be seen as a Serial Murder. What the Monster kills, steals, and destroys from Humanity is priceless. These Monsters give a life-sentence of pain and at least should receive a life-sentence of punishment for their heinous crime.

The Shame & Fear keeps victims silent and when we finally ready to face what happened, relive the Nightmare by retelling & retelling the painful details we discover that Legally speaking our time has run out. There is no way to get restitution or retribution for the life that we should have had & could have had if we were not attacked. The abusers can never give back what they destroyed. They can never replace what they stole. However, Humanity can make a statement that a person's life & their soul is valuable & Murder is unacceptable, so if a Demon destroys a life, then it must forfeit its own life by either spending a Life Sentence in Prison or in the Graveyard.

Ns on TV (part 1)

Sunday Night's show of Brother's & Sisters episode, Rhapsody of the Flesh, took on the topic of N. This show demonstrated that a Ns level of pathology can be very deceptive, until a person has all the info. Ns can be very Charismatic & N-chanting. Even the Momster had the ability to N-chant, until her mask started to slip.One of the characters named Luc had his Mom give him a "Surprise Visit", yet Luc was not thrilled in the least. As the story line develops we find out just why; his Mom by the writers point of view is "a Classic N". His NM definitely had boundary issues, Narcissistic and Histrionic Traits.
Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval and inappropriate seductiveness, usually beginning in early adulthood. These individuals are lively, dramatic, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.
They may be inappropriately sexually provocative, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and be easily influenced by others. Associated features may include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, feelings that are easily hurt, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

The writers portrayed this NM as a person who is "the Life of the Party" and did a great job in showing how others can be easily taken in & N-chanted by Ns. Luc's NM is very attractive, exotic, energetic, extremely friendly, engaging, and fascinated by each person's life. She makes each person she interacts w/feel important & special. The Men are sexually attracted to her and the Women long to be like her. She has the ability to elicit strong emotions in people & that is very intriguing & invigorating. Luc's NM expresses to all those who will give her an audience her pain of being rejected by her only Son. The viewer is left feeling empathy for a kind & friendly Person who deeply longs to have a relationship w/her Son & he doesn't want anything to do with her. As w/all Ns there is more to the story. Luc's fiance Sara longs to get to know Luc's Mom, her future MIL, but he insists that his NM is not apart of his life and he wants to keep it that way. Sara is very confused & pleads w/him to disclose the reason for his anger toward his Mother and the truth finally comes out.

Luc's NM abandoned him & his father not once, but at least twice. She not only left her Marriage, but she left her Son for another Man. She did not have contact w/Luc or his Father, until her relationship w/the other Man failed, then she came back to her Husband & Child. Luc did not want to Trust her or Forgive her, but his Dad loved his Wife and desperately wanted to work things out. To give their Family another chance at Happiness. Then just when Luc started trusting his NM, she leaves her Family once again for another Man and once again NC from her, until that relationship failed as well. Luc said that his Father spent his entire life trying to make her happy. As Luc tells his story we see the NM's True Identity being revealed. How she is so self-absorbed that she has no empathy for her child and betrays & abandons him not once, but twice. Luc shows how you never out grow the need for a Mother's love and how that rejection lasts a life time. The only issue I had with this episode was that it had a typical Hollywood ending when Sara tells Luc, "You didn't have the Mom you wanted, so now you have to decide do you want the Mom you have? That is the Life Changing question those of us w/NMs must ask ourselves. The problem I had was that Luc & his Mother had one very heated dramatic interaction, w/yelling & dishes & cups being thrown to the floor and against the wall. Then the Kitchen door swings open, (cue the adorable angelic harp playing Cherubims, send in the beautiful fluttering butterflies, and drop the spectacular Rainbow) for a Happily Ever After Hollywood Ending. Those of us who grew up in the KoN know that it is a place of Making Believing Everything is Okay when it is definitely is not.

There are two main reason I despise the Ending of this episode, Rhapsody of the Flesh. (1) It is not realistic at all. (2) It is typical & lacks creativity. (3) It demonstrates & perpetuates Cheap Forgiveness (Forgiveness w/out the requirement of Remorse & Repentance). Luc's NM was not held accountable or responsible for what she did to Luc or Luc's Father. She did not show Authentic Remorse for what she had done to Luc. Sure she said the 3 magic words, "I am sorry" and the tears did flow, but her pain was not for the pain she caused her Son & her Son's Father, but rather pain of being rejected by her Son. Now that is a Classic N! They are not truly sorry for what they have done, only for the consequence they now have to face due to their hurtful choices towards others.

I would have enjoyed seeing Luc get in touch w/his anger towards his NM and let it out. For example he could have said, "How does it feel to be rejected?" And express how he felt as a child when his own Mother rejected him, D&D him not once, but twice and was never there for him even in his adult years. It would have been great if the writers resisted Fixing a Relationship in Less-Than 5 minutes and took the time to develop this story line into follow-up episodes showing how it takes hard work to heal a toxic dysfunctional relationship. The writers could have taken this opportunity to show that the Abuse of Abandonment is just as devastating as if Luc's NM would have beaten him w/her fists. The writers could have explored the how The Effects of Abandonment leaves the child feeling Lesser-Than and unworthy of love, etc. I would have loved it if Luc's NM would have stopped focusing just on her pain and got in touch w/her child's and felt his pain & had empathy for him and how she deeply hurt him. Now that would have been an Amazing Episode!

Poisonous People & Zombie Relationships

Just the other day a friend of mine just opened my eyes & convicted me in regards to my med2high level Nsis. I have had NC w/the med2high level Nsis since she D&D us. She does not have my e-mail and she doesn't have e-mail so I can't block her, but what I can do is delete her phone number out of my house phone & cell phone. It is very interesting the terminology blocking and deleting. Blocking has flexibility, what is done can be undone, there is the potential for things to change. In regards to my Nsis there is nothing to block because she is not seeking a relationship, not until she needs to use us once again, and even then it is not a relationship, but a source that she is after. We are only her Source for Resources and nothing more. However, Deleting, that is permanent. Now deleting a relationship, that would imply that we had something to get rid of, but the only thing that I can delete is an Illusion.

All this time I have been basically reactive to her D&D, but by deleting her phone number is the last connection to each other. I guess it is placing that final nail to the coffin of our dead relationship, or Zombie Relationship (something that appears to be alive, but really isn't. Something that is continuing to decay past its expiration date). Definitely putting an end to our Zombie Relationship has been way over due. This past Oct. was my last attempt at a Hallmark Relationship w/her, but it has become painfully clear that she is not capable of even a Hallmark Relationship. Our Sisterhood was just an Illusion. The actual relationship died years ago (if we ever really had one other than the older Sis coming to the rescue of the younger Sis). Now it is time for me to bury the Great Illusion of What Could Have Been, because she is a N there is no What Could Have Been, only the Painful Reality of having a toxic relationship w/a N.

Each time the Nsis left my home, she would hug & kiss us all good-bye, thank us for helping her out, and say that she would give us a call once she was settled in her new place. Then the D&D and we would not hear from her for 5 years until she & her children was once again homeless. This time, mainly for her children's sake we took her & the girls in, but not any more. She D&D us for the last time. I was not shocked because she did it to us before. This time it hurt like hell for the scales of my eyes to fall off and realize that there is no one to blame (not her Nh & not our Nparents), but the Nsis for the D&D, and to realize that she too is a N. I am done w/focusing on what I don't have in regards to the NFOO and I am going to focus on the great treasures in my life. There are great loving people in this world that we can connect with, we have got to stop wasting our time trying to connect to those incapable of reciprocating love.

A very good friend of mine CZ recently gave another friend of mine (who is also ending her relationship w/her Nsis) some very good advice that I wanted to share.

Quote

So don't hide from feeling 'blue'. Let yourself work this out and feel it all the way to your toes for it is VERY sad that siblings are NOT one another's best promoter, best support and champion. It's a loss and merits respect for the loss that it is.~CZ

Just wanted to second what CZ said. Even the death of a Zombie Relationship is painful. Not grieving What Was, but rather the loss of What Can Never Be. We should have a least one Sib that can love & support us, but unfortunately due to their pathology it is not possible. There is no potential of What Could Be if only I stick it out, only the painful reality of What Is & What Is is a very toxic thing. No More, What Ifs, If onlys, Could Have Beens, or Should Have Beens. Time to bury these decayed bones. I remember watching a Sci Fi movie, can't remember which one, but to get rid of the Ghost for good the person had to find the decaying old bones and bury them or was it they had to set them on fire? Either way they had to be put in their rightful place, and the Haunting ended. I guess it is time for us to free ourselves from the Haunting of a Nsis & get out the Little Black Dress and allow ourselves the freedom to grieve What Can Never Be. RIP the Grand Illusion of Sisterhood w/a Nsis! In The End, they did not reject us, but we are releasing them & in turn freeing ourselves of a toxic relationship.

A friend of mine recently asked a very good question.

Why would a sane person choose to eat rancid meat when they have a feast before them?
I think it is because we don't believe the meat is rancid, but instead we think our Nsibs are like bitter or sour fruit, that if given enough time and TLC they will grow into something sweet, palatable, or at least digestible. We fail to realize that we keep getting sick after contact with them, because they are toxic and hazardous to our health, some are even deadly. They kill our joy, peace of mind, physical well-being, etc. One might think that after constant exposure to these Poisonous People we would build up some kind of resistance or immunity. I haven't found any yet. In fact just the opposite has happened. I am disgusted & repulsed by Ns at all levels. I guess I have developed a Conditioned Response (Aversion) thanks to the Ns that were in my life and I can not stomach Ns from any walk of life.

My friend is also getting pressure from her enabling Sib to reconcile w/her Nsis. My lower level Nsis believes she is a better person/Christian because she gives Cheap Forgiveness to unchanged Ns. By not holding people accountable for their hurtful behavior gives them permission to continue harming others. They are not motivated to change, because we will just forgive them whether they ask for it or not. Yuck!

Reconcile w/a N? Let me tell you why that is impossible,
(1) the relationship must be valuable to both parties involved and Ns don't value people they only know how to use them.
(2) Respecting each others boundaries. This is impossible for Ns because boundaries only tempt Ns to blast right through them. They get a rush from getting people to compromise themselves.
(3) The defintion states To reestablish a close relationship between, since there was never a healthy authentic connection from the beginning (Ns are incapable of truly bonding w/people), there is nothing to base a "reconnection" on. The only thing that can be reestablished is a toxic relationship and that is not at all tempting to me. Ns are only motivated by justifying not rectifying relationships. We can not rebuild when the foundation is broken. Any relationship involving a N will crumble in time, because it is not designed to go the distance. It lacks true substance. It is hallow and weak and it will fail.
*Anyone else please feel free to add to the list Why Reconcile w/a N is impossible.

Well I did it! I deleted the med2high level Nsis's & her Nh's phone numbers from our house phone and cell phones. I know this might sound stupid to some people reading it, but it was a big thing for me. Symbolically it means I no longer wish to have any connection with her or to her. Now for the pics of her children, I guess I will pack them up & put them away. I have nothing against my Nieces and Nephew and it is not their fault that both their parents are Ns. I know what it is like to have Ns for parents and the rest of the family not wanting to have anything to do w/the Ns so the children feel rejected too. I did my very best to make sure History did not repeat itself for the kids sake. If the day comes when they are adults and they can see past their parents projected lies about us being terrible people and they ask where were we, I can say that their parents choose to D&D us several times & prevented contact w/you kids. I will explain to them that their perceptions of their parents are different than ours because they treated us horrible & as loving parents we had to protect our child from being continually hurt by them. God only knows if we will ever see our Nieces and Nephew again, but as for the connection to the med2high Nsis, just like w/the Demon Dad & the Momster, It is Finished. She is out of my life, out of my heart, and eventually out of my mind. My goal here on out is to fully focus on the blessings I have in my life, to fully appreciate & enjoy what I have.

Thanks for listening.

Tyler Perri & Forgiveness

Tyler Perri's interview w/Oprah left me with many mixed emotions. I really feel for Tyler Perri for all he endured and survived and is only beginning to heal from now that he no longer feels that he must remain quiet. As a child who was abused I understand how he said he died that day his evil sperm donor beat him to the point of blacking out and dissociating. I applaud him for having the courage to come forward and tell about the nightmare he survived and by doing so he removes the shame and places it where it rightfully belongs on the Monsters who hurt him. It is not Tyler's shame, but the Monsters to own & carry. Unfortunately Tyler is holding on to shame that does not belong to him. He has started his healing process & has made great progress, but there are things he is blocking which in time he may be ready to address someday. The complete truth of what he endured & those who are responsible for Failing to Protect is a very hard thing to accept. It is a lot easier to make excuses, then to accept that people made wrong choices that brought abuse to his life. Tyler's personal goal is to dig deeper, so that he can discover the feelings he has been suppressing regarding those who should have loved & protected him from evil and not be evil to him. I appreciate that Tyler was so very open & honest about the abuse he endured and how he struggled with the effects of the different types of abuse. I know that was not easy to do no matter how rich & famous you are. Tyler is an inspiration for others, especially Men, to come forward and share the horrible nightmares they endured. I am glad that Tyler & Oprah are going to do a follow-up program w/men coming forward to talk about the abuse they survived.

Since Tyler was unable to address how both his parents failed him as a child I will. What I noticed in Tyler's interview w/Oprah was a lack of anger towards his parents for not creating a safe & loving home for him. I believe Tyler needs to stop suppressing & start publicly addressing & expressing the anger towards both his parents. There may be private moments when he begins to get in touch w/his anger and then I think he becomes fearful of it, so instead of acknowledging it, giving it a voice & letting it out to full expression he puts a cap on it. I pray someday he will feel safe to fully let it out, to get it out, so it will no longer fester inside. He needs to fully Champion the Child that was lost instead of denying him a voice. He was forced to cover up, hide, & deny the sins of his parents and he is still doing that today. He continues to carry their shame, so that they don't have to. As a child he felt responsible for his Mother and as a grown adult he still feels responsible for her in that he could not even tell what happened to him until his Mother passed away. He said that he could not bare to be the source of her pain. He does not get it that it is the evil psycho dad who caused & is responsible for all the pain that Tyler & his Mom endured. Tyler was not only shielding his mom from the pain of revealing the truth about the abuse, but also the shame of Failing to Protect her child. I wish the both of them would have come forward years ago to share what they survived and that she would have had the courage to admit that she failed her Son. It would have been so healing for the both of them, not to mention us viewers, who could have witnessed the process of a parent validating a child's abuse & pain by accepting responsibility, being accountable, having remorse, asking for forgiveness and Tyler giving her Authentic Forgiveness. What if she went on to live 10 or 20 more years would Tyler have kept all that bottled up inside just to protect her from exposing a painful & hideous truth about his childhood? He is hyper-focused on his Mom & preoccupied w/her feelings instead of healing the child within by giving that young child a voice to express his anger toward a parent that Failed to Protect him. His Mom either directly or indirectly gave Tyler the message that she could not handle the public knowing about the abuse. Putting his needs aside for his Mom's public image is a form of abuse.

I know first hand about this guilt to keep quiet. For years my grandmother picked up on the disconnect between her, my Aunt and my family and knew that something was wrong. She kept asking, Is there anything wrong? And of course I would reply, nothing is wrong. During the last visit to my grandmother's I was avoiding going to my Aunt's house because I did not want to be around her husband, the man who repeatedly hurt me when I was a child. The Momster called me at my hotel room and told me, "You are not going to cause trouble & cause a scene?" She was afraid that I was going to expose the Truth about her BIL. She further stated, "I didn't spend all that money to travel here, just so that you could cause a problem." I was told by the Momster that her mother, my grandmother, due to her poor health would literally die if she found out how my Aunt's husband hurt me. I believed this lie for years, until I heard the soft gentle voice of the Holy Spirit say, that is a lie, your grandmother has endured a War, the death of one of her children, the boat trip to America, she can handle the truth. It will hurt her, but it will not kill her. She was able to hear the Truth & she is still alive years later. I understand that the lie appears so strong that you actually believe someone can die from the Truth being told. Shame on both Tyler's Mom and the Momster for forcing their children to remain quiet about the abuse we endured. How terrible of Tyler's Mom for making her son bare this pain alone. She should have encouraged her child to come forward years ago and stand with him and show remorse for having Failed to Protect her Son.

Instead she made him feel like he had to keep the secret. Again her primary concern was not for her child, but for herself, and making her child feel that it is his responsibility to protect her. This is a great example of the misplaced Child who is parenting their own Parent, when the Parent is the Child and the Child is the Parent. Shame on his Mother for allowing this to continue into his adulthood and never once putting her own feelings aside for her child's. Even as a grown Man he feels responsible for protecting her, yet she did not feel responsible for protecting him when he was a helpless child, nor to support him as an adult while he exposed the horrible abuse. Sure she was a victim too, I get that, but does that forever exonerate her responsibility to protect her child?

His mother had no problem running to her Sister's for help, knowing that her Sister owned a gun and would use it. His Mom removed Tyler from the Demon dad's house and then she moved him back knowing that he will continually be abused over & over again (even Oprah's non-verbal expressions showed she had a problem with that). I don't believe it is healthy for Tyler to make excuse after excuse for his Mother's horrible choice of enabling the abuse to continue. What if Tyler's Aunt would have shot the Monster to protect her Nephew? I believe that is what Tyler's Mom was expecting her to do, for someone else to take responsibility so she wouldn't have to make the hard choice. Enablers, like Tyler's Mom who allowed the abuse to go on for years are nothing more than Secondary Abusers. When there is a Monster of this magnitude a Mother must protect her child, because her child was clearly not safe by staying.
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/03/enablers-are-secondary-abusers.html

Eventually there must come a time when you risk your own life to save your child's. Her life and the life of her child's was in danger regardless if she chose to stay or leave. Staying did not keep her or her child safe. In my book she is clearly guilty of Failure to Protect. By law a Mother is allowed to protect her child by any means possible when there is Clear and Present danger as w/Tyler's dad. If she shot him herself, it would be out of protecting herself and her child from extreme harm. It would have been a clear case of Self-Protection. She had options available to her, more than other woman in her same situation. She had a Sister who supported & protected her & her child. Society just wants to paint her as a victim, because to admit that she had options & she Failed to Protect her child from a Monster is too painful to admit, we would rather just view her as a helpless victim rather than to accept the alternative that her Enabling was a form of severe child abuse.

Sure she was a victim, but she was also a Secondary Abuser to her child & for that as a Mother myself I have no empathy for her sacrificing her child to a Monster. There is a very ugly secret about abusive "families" that was not addressed on the show which is that victims find relief when other victims in the family are being abused. Many feel a tremendous amount of guilt for feeling relieved that they are not being abused and someone else is & others suppress or deny the guilt and somehow try to justify why their loved one is getting beaten instead of them. That is some small way the other victim is partly to blame for "triggering or causing" the abuse they are suffering. I believe this played a huge part w/Tyler's Mom. To even imagine His Mom feeling relieved that her Son is being abused instead of her is a truth too painful for Tyler to admit to himself let alone Oprah or the public. Sons in abusive families often take on the rescuer role for their Mothers and will sacrifice themselves in order to protect their Moms from harm. They will often "trigger" a beating so that the Monster will attack them instead of their Mom. I fully understand this because I did this w/my Sibs, I tried to take their beatings both physically and verbally so they didn't have to endure the abuse from the Momster. You don't automatically grow out of this role and even though the threat is gone the one-way relationship remains of always placing other person's needs & wants ahead of your own. Tyler lost his role of child in order to protect his Mom and I lost mine in order to protect my Sibs.

Now for the Monster, other wise known as Tyler's Demon Dad, I hate what he did to Tyler & his Mom. The Monster's comment that if he had beaten Tyler even harder he would have become President may be too horrible for some to believe that this jerk actually meant what he said, but he did. I know he truly meant it because the Momster has said some equally evil things that others have a hard time believing until the Momster herself said, "I truly feel this way. I really do." His lack of empathy and remorse & continued abuse sickens me. And what breaks my heart is Tyler's disconnect to the reality of the Demon Dad. Forgiving the Monster so that Tyler does not carry the anger inside of him and allow that to contaminate his life & relationships, I SOOOO get that. I really do. By not killing this Monster, Tyler is showing great self-control, Forgiveness, Mercy & Grace. However, by supporting this Monster in luxury sends the wrong message to other monsters, victims of child abuse, victims of all kind of abuse, and the public. Tyler is perpetuating two kinds of lies; (#1) That Child Abuse is not serious or devastating because Tyler has done very well himself, so well that he is actually supporting his abuser. Would he support the Monsters that sexually abused him? Why not? They are no different than his demon dad. Lie (#2) That this Forgiveness (supporting the Monster in luxury) is some kind of highly evolved state of healing or Super Christian power of Loving Thy Enemy. What about the requirement of Remorse, Repentance, not to mention Restitution?

Friends of mine a WoN, recently recommended, Janis Spring's book, How Can I Forgive You? The Courage to Forgive, the Freedom Not to, I wish I could send a copy to Tyler. I really like the following words from Janis,"Morally & Spiritually, you're no more required to forgive an unrepentant offender than you are to love him. You're free to reserve forgiveness for someone who has the fortitude to admit his culpability and the decency to help release you from the pain he has made you suffer. I would go as far as to say that you don't restore your humanity when you forgive an unapologetic offender; he restores his humanity when he works to earn your forgiveness."

I believe when we give Cheap Forgiveness to an unrepentant offender we rob/deny him/her the chance to restore his/her humanity, so no wonder they continue to hurt others. Each time Cheap Forgiveness is given more and more of their humanity disappears or dies. Cheap Forgiveness does not make the offender a better person, it makes them Worse. It INCREASES their level of pathology (as demonstrated w/the Monster's statement to Tyler that if only he would have beaten him more Tyler would have become President ) . Cheap Forgiveness is one reason why Ns get worse not better w/time. They drop their mask because why do they need to invest the time & energy to keep it on when people are just going to automatically forgive the unrepentant offender for hurting them.

Any time a person would require the Momster to accept responsibility for her abusive behavior and be accountable, have remorse & change/repentance she would say, "I wish people would just accept me for who I am." I believe it is her way of saying, Look I am a N or P who has lost her humanity I do not want to restore it because I like being a N or P, it works for me, so just accept me for who I am, a Narcissist or Psycho. In other words, put up and shut up. The Momster's ex-life-long friends (one who knew the Momster back in College) said "Your Mom was always different, had trouble getting along w/others, but over the years she has become someone I don't even recognize". The Momster D&D this ex-life-long friend just because she would not agree w/the Momster that it was my Aunt's fault for ruining their relationship. That is the Momster always trying to blame others for what she has done. The Momster also destroyed her relationship w/her life-long friend because her friend refused to accept the Momster's excuses for hurting her. This time the Momster's friend did not give her Cheap Forgiveness, like she had done so many times in the past, so the Momster ended the relationship by hanging up on the friend & never again making contact. The Momster would rather throw away a life-long friendship (over 40 years) than to accept any responsibility for her abusive behavior.

For me Forgiveness & Acceptance was something I had to redefine to find,
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7271.0.html

As well as finding Closure to the KoN,
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7306.0.html

Although I am NC w/the Momster, I ordered Janis Spring's book, How Can I Forgive You? The Courage to Forgive, the Freedom Not to, because it will be a great resource for other relationships.

Tyler's father was and still is an evil man being and Scripture tells us to rebuke evil, have nothing to do with it, so do not house it in a mansion, empower it, validate it and treat it like a god. Tyler does not have to desperately try to prove he is better than the Demon Dad, Tyler is very good and his sperm donor is very bad & evil, we get that, Tyler has nothing to prove to us and has nothing to prove to himself, or even God. Jesus knows that Tyler is a very good Man and that the Demon Dad is a very evil man. Who is Tyler trying to convince that he is better person than the Monster? The Monster continues to devalue him and in the Monster's mind Tyler will always be Less-Than that is why the Monster can justify his abuse towards Tyler. Surely Tyler could find a much better use for his money such as changing the Laws of our Land so that Child Abuse would have NO Statue of Limitation, like murder, because like Tyler said, the Monster killed that innocent child w/in him that day. There should be NO Statue of Limitation for a Slaughtered Soul. He needs to kick that Monster out of the Mansion.
I know we are taught to Honor our Mother & Father, so how do we fulfill this commandment when our parents are evil? The spirit in which that law was written was a Holy Sprit and it pertains to imperfect Parents, not evil parents. Children of Evil Parents are exempt from traditionally honoring evil parents. A Holy Spirit would not tell us to honor an evil one. We can honor evil parents in different ways. Here are some suggestions,
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2010/02/honoring-abusive-evil-toxic-reprobate.html

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Forgiveness is one thing but inviting a child molester back into your life and supporting them is another. ~ May

Well said May! I of course completely agree. I must admit that many Christians mess up the concept of Forgiveness for themselves as well as for others. I have searched and searched Scripture and I have not found it ever written that we are to forgive unrepentant people. Repentantance is a requirement for Forgiveness, it is a requirement for Salvation. Even mere words are not enough, the person's heart must be right. Their heart must feel authentic remorse & pain for what they have done to the other person. We can lie & deceive others through Counterfeit Remorse & Repentance, but we can not deceive God, for He can see into our very soul if we are truthful or not. It is not my intent to have a Bible Study, just to point out that at least where America is concerned it is One Nation Founded Under God. These precepts, principles & concepts of Forgiveness are Biblically based and when Christians claim that they are following what God commands & teaches in the Bible well, we have got to check out the reference & investigate what it states. The following is just a few examples. There are many more. For those who want to do a more extensive research, you could use,

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/

and type in the word/s repent/ance

Peter shows that a person must have true repentance in his heart and not just in his words. This is his response to a Man who tried to buy God's favor & the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:20-23 (New International Version)
20 Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin."

Our words alone are not enough, our behavior/actions, and our thoughts/intent must also be Authentic & Honorable. And as we know, Ns & Ps are pathological liars and will tell you any lie you are willing to believe. We must require that their behavior lines up w/their words. Actions speak louder than words and are more truthful, which is not to say that people can not pretend to be good and deceive others, they can, but the truth eventually comes out & exposes them for the Counterfeit they really are. We can not automatically accept that they have changed just because they said they did, we must look for the consistent proof of that.

Luke 24:46-48 (New International Version)
46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.

Luke 17:3 (New International Version)
3 So watch yourselves.
"If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.

In Acts, Peter, a disciple of Christ tells the people,
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

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Letting, I agree with what you said. I was watching Joyce Meyer the other night talk about her father. She said that God told her to move her parents up to were she is but she was. She also supported her abusive father financially. She said that after a few years of supporting her parents, her father was in tears repented and asked for her forgiveness. She said that he had changed.~May

I have heard Joyce Meyer's speak on different topics and there are many things I am in agreement with her when what she has said is confirmed by Scripture. However, Forgiveness w/out the requirement of Repentance is putting the Cart before the Horse, it just doesn't work that way and it is not found in Scripture.

Repentance is putting true remorse into action. So how do we know if someone has truly repentant & changed?
http://dealingwithtoxicpeople.blogspot.com/2009/09/are-they-good-or-bad.html

When people tell me that God told them to forgive their abuser w/out the requirement of repentance I wonder why would God tell you one thing and tell the rest of us (the entire World) something else? He is no respecter of person. He does not play favorites. The world values status, credentials & fame, God does not. We are all equal under the Cross. I view one's personal relationship w/God very sacred and as long as what s/he says God told him/her to do lines up with the Holy Handbook, then I do not pass judgement. What God tells a person to do w/his or her ownlife is between that person and God, until they encourage, direct, imply or state directly or indirectly that others are to be like them & do like them. We are to be like Christ, not like Secular or even non-secular, Christian Celebrates. I must say that I question their ability to discern their own desires from Christ's, because God is faithful to His Word, so He would not instruct the entire World to require Repentance, but a select few are to offer Cheap Forgiveness by not requiring remorse & repentance.

Most child molester's re-offend when they see an opportunity. The others who have not re-offended have not changed, they just haven't been caught yet, or haven't figured out a way to get away w/their next crime. Their desire to cause harm to children never goes away. The Demon Dad who hurt my Nsis, years later after he claimed "God changed me," he remarried, became an active church member, a teacher at a local school, pillar of the community, he adopted a baby w/his new wife and a few years later was caught by his wife hurting their little D. I have seen these Monsters up close, one even hurt me, so I know they are not sorry for what they have done only that they have been caught and will be punished for their evil. The tears of remorse is just an elaborate illusion and a counterfeit powered by the public's own projected & transferred emotions. We think they have regret, because any normal person would, but they are not normal, they are evil in the disguise of human beings.

Going into Private Practice. . . . What do you think? (Part. 1)

Warning: If you have not watched last night's episode of Private Practice do NOT read this article. If you haven't seen this episode, I highly recommend it. I think it can open the door to some great discussion about the Narcissistic Continuum. Here is a link for the episode,

http://abc.go.com/watch/private-practice/SH559070/VD5591618/a-better-place-to-be

Great writing, like great art, has the ability to elicit strong emotions and last night's episode definitely did that for me. Second Warning, do NOT watch this episode right before you got to bed! It took me quite while to get to sleep last night. All 3 story lines were very provocative & thought producing.

My personal alternative titles to last night's episode would be called either,

The Good Doctor or Healthy Narcissism.

Which doc was the Good Doctor/Friend and which was the Narcissist?

What do you think?

When my choice benefits myself, yet is a detriment to someone else is that healthy?

What if that someone else is not a stranger, but someone very close to you?

Or the child of someone who is very close to you like Betsy?

Is abuse only when we do or say something harmful?

When we neglect to do the right & honorable thing is that abuse?

This is what other viewers are saying,

http://abc.go.com/shows/private-practice/episode-guide

*If you haven't been following this series it might be hard to fully grasp the impact of the decisions these characters each made.

The Back Story definitely would help. The Deceased Daddy Del was a character who made mistakes in his youth (addicted to drugs, turned his girlfriend, Betsy's deceased Mom onto drugs) and has worked hard to redeem himself. In fact he sacrificed his own life taking care of Sam & Naomi's pregnant D after the two of them were hit by a drunk driver while Del was driving the pregnant teen to the hospital. They could have lost both their D & grand D if it was not for Del. I am hoping that when Naomi returns she will redeem this story line or that Violet's conscious will get the best of her and she will change her mind. What I found disturbing was Violet's intentions, by doing right by Betsy was somehow going to make up for not bonding w/her new born child. Violet was going to do the right thing for the wrong reason. It was always hard for me to come up w/an example of doing The Right Thing For The Wrong Reason, now I have a perfect example. I would like to think that there is more to Violet then just being motivated to do right for Betsy for her son's sake. I think she really connected w/Betsy and who better to take care of a child who lost both her parents, Mom was a drug addicted, Aunt recently gave her to Del's friends, then a Foster Mom who is also a psychologist?

The extent to just how bad they failed her would come from knowing the back story. Many viewers, from some of the reviews I read are saying they are going to stop watching. I hope not. I personally love a story about redemption. so I am tuning in next week and hoping for the best.

The only person who did the honorable thing was Aunt Monica. She realized her limitations and she did what was right by her Niece Betsy by searching for Del's friends (per his instructions) who were described & identified close as Family Members. These Good Doctors were suppose to be a Family of Friends to a person who laid down his very life for his Friends and one of their children. Violet's closing comments of "We did a bad thing. We did a very bad thing. Shame on us." -- or something like that (oh here it is, "“We did a bad thing. You all know it. We did a bad thing.”) further demonstrates that Narcissists are fully aware what they do is wrong -- they simply just don't care because they lack loyalty and honor. I don't believe the Good Doctors are Super-sized Ns like the Momster, but they definitely fall on the Narcissistic Continuum.

Here is the song as Violet was rejecting/betraying Betsy. It is appropriately titled Shame.

You Again! Best Friendemies?

I am very interested in the dynamics of interpersonal relationships and lately I have been reading about people who are writing about Different Types of Friends/Friendships. As I am doing my homework or research on Friends I am discovering that people are also writing about Friendenmies (friends who are really your enemy). not sure about the correct spelling of the word. I have seen it spelled a couple of different ways.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2226839_spot-a-frenemy.html

In the thread Must See Movies & TV,
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7687.0.html
examples of Authentic Love are provided and NewWings mentioned one of my favorites, Fried Green Tomatoes. I believe that CZ has the Spirit of of Towanda!
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7312.msg25901.html#msg25901
What really bothered me is what some of the critics said about this movie. Basically that woman are incapable of this deep level of love for one another unless they are sexually attracted to each other. I do not believe this to be true. Sure our culture plays into women's insecurities and competitiveness, but many of us do not buy into this. I believe there are many women here at WoN who would make great friends. There is a new movie, You Again about what is popularly called Best Friendemies. It is disheartening to me that having or being a Frienemy is becoming so popular, especially among young girls. It is that Toxic Triangle that some girls find themselves in where they compete among themselves to be the Golden Friend of the Popular Girl in the group which results in the Less-Than or Less Preferred Friend and Least Preferred Friend Statuses. Even very young Pre-K girls do this. Two of them can play well together, but bring in a third or fourth and if there is a Mean Girl in the bunch, she takes this opportunity to exclude her targeted Scapegoat. I hate when this happens and what bothers me even more is that some teachers and parents view it as "a child's right to choose who she wants to play with and who she does not." I believe we have the right to choose who we want to be friends with and who we do not, but this exclusion is not about choice it is about the power to hurt others which is mean, hideous and wicked. Some argue that the Mean Girl has a Fear of Rejection so she is doing to others what she fears will be done to her, or maybe what has been done to her. Some people believe that the way to treat Mean Kids is to love them into kindness and they purposely place their own children in the line of fire. This is not my approach. My D and I talk about how a certain child is being mean today, how we don't have to play with him/her or any mean person, until they can be kind. Maybe tomorrow Little Sam or Sally will be kind to others, but today, s/he chooses to be mean so we will play w/our friends who are kind. Children who don't want to be mean, eventually stop when they receive this consistent consequence, however, there are some who just pick another group of kids to manipulate until the entire class no longer wants to play with them. My D has told me a certain child is mean everyday so I don't want to play with her anymore and I tell her that is a very good choice.

Some girls really enjoy being Mean Girls and the Movie that glorified this behavior has some people viewing this Nism as "normal childhood behavior". It may be common in our backwards world, but is definitely not normal or healthy. While watching a Movie depicting Mean Girls and how they treat others might be entertaining for some, this is definitely not realistic. As we all know, having an N-counter is not enjoyable and is very toxic. Some very young girls get addicted to the drama & chaos from toxic relationships.

On the flip side, I must say that the You Again movie trailer looks like the movie would offer a lot of laughs and be fun to watch. It is very important that we explain to our children exactly what we find funny and why and how certain N-behaviors are not funny at all. Perhaps this a great chance to open dialogue w/our children about Authentic Friends and how Mean Girls become Mean Women. How bullies don't grow in love only in age and don't get better, but instead much worse over time. We need to explain to our childeren how these N-counters drain a person's time and energy and it is best to invest our time, energy, love into Authentic Friends who can reciprocate love, appreciation, respect, trust, etc. How toxic people are over drawn because they keep requesting authentic love from us and give none in return which makes us feel emotionally bankrupt after an N-counter.

Has anyone seen this movie and what did you think?



Here is another interesting article,
http://www.ehow.com/how_4528252_tell-friends-frenemies.html

I guess symbolically speaking, if people could be identified by colors, an Authentic Friend would be white (or perhaps your favorite color), an enemy would be black (or your least favorite color [black happens to be one of my favs]), and a Frienemies would be a shade of grey. I never liked grey, not really sure why? I have no desire to have Grey Friends or Frienemies.