Tuesday, September 29, 2009

The Ultimate Gaslighting--you be the judge!

* I am updating this Post because due to recent changes at a Forum I once Highly recommended, I now have to add it to the Unsafe Forum List. For details on the WoN Forum, Click Here. Is it "as bad" as the Forum Listed below? Some say yes, some say no, so you need to judge for yourself and make your own decision. "Not as bad" is still No Good.

(Below is about a different On-Line Support Group Forum)

Are you ready to get your advanced degree in detecting Narcissism and Gaslighting? Here is a great case study for you. Go grab a snack and something to drink and come back for some great education! I believe that this can be a huge learning experience for me as well as for others and what the enemy meant for bad God can use for good. When you have God on your side, no weapon formed against you shall prosper. No matter how cunning, devious, or powerful the weapon is God's light of truth will shine through. Because you are reading this post you are seeking the truth, while there will be others that will be afraid of it. Bravo for you for seeking the truth and wanting to find out the facts for yourself. Even if you were not apart of the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers (DONM) forum you can benefit from reading the following because it demonstrates how the mind of narcissist works. Those of you who belong to the same DONM (Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers) "support group" forum you know first hand how I speak and one mention of God or Son in one sentence does not constitute preaching/proselytizing/over speaking my religion/. For those that do not belong to this forum then you will have to just take my word for it in addition to those who were there and experienced first hand how I speak on a secular forum. One of my first posts I did list scriptures so I can see how that one post in their minds was "over speaking my religion". This was my very first forum, so I didn't even know about the PMs (private messages), which is how they sent the warnings. The second warning I received was because in Danu's I Sing: post where she said she didn't know where that voice came from telling her to sing, I suggested that it came from her loving Creator. This is all it took and I was Banned! I e-mailed Danu and told her I didn't even receive the warnings because I didn't know the PM thing existed. She said she understood that and gave me another chance. After I was warned I immediately modified my speech to try and "fit in". Other members are permitted to talk about God -- so why can't I? Why can't I say that if we are open to it, God will bring loving people to fill the void of NM (Narcissistic Mothers) and siblings? Why is it that others can mention God, but I am told NEVER have any religious words in my sentences. Why is it okay to bash God and His people on this DONM forum -- that hurts and offends believers (I am not the only one although I was meant to feel that way) and that is allowed, but to give God one sentence of credit not permitted. When I pointed this out I was told, "Like in real life there are more than twice as many non-believers than believers on the forum."I understand first hand the anger one can have towards God and Christians (I have been in that place myself along my healing journey, so it is very understandable and I never complained about it). Nothing angers me more than to hear how abusive people that claim to know God abuse His words to hurt others. God's purpose for our lives is to love and be loved and abuse is never apart of it. These abusers can never represent, nor speak for our loving Jesus. Many people take on the title of Christian, but not the life. I have read Danu's Code of Conduct over and over again, line by line, and I did not break it and she knows that. They refuse to update it and make it clear that NO reference to God is permitted. They persecute me behind closed doors yet don't update their Code of Conduct to represent their own viewpoints against God--why is that?

Below is what Danu and Light are lying about me breaking the Code of Conduct. The statements in "blue quotes" are what they say I did wrong/the rule/s I broke from the Code of Conduct. You are smart and insightful people, you be the judge. This is a very abusive situation and Danu and Light are acting like narcissistic parents trying to Gaslight me thinking that this is my problem when it is clearly theirs. Weird thing is Danu started this "support group" because she was being mistreated in another forum -- how is she not doing the same here, ask her that one!
As in a court of law, let's stick to the facts and only the facts. Removing Danu's, Light's and my personal differences in principles/viewpoints/beliefs, the fact remains that Danu's Code of Conduct is misleading people into a trap. According to her own Code of Conduct, not her personal beliefs, I broke no rule! If she wants the Code of Conduct to reflect her personal beliefs then she must do that--shouldn't she? Yes, of course she should, but that would be the open and honest thing to do and she is not honest about how she hates God and Believers.

Read for the following yourself. It is the response I sent Light when she was trying to Gaslight me:


Danu has recently asked me to put one of my postings on her website, so obviously what I have to say is helping others. Our goals are the same, which is to help others. This forum is a Godsend-it really is and I know you don't want God to be a part of it, but He is whether you acknowledge Him or not. We are not always going to agree with each other's viewpoint and that is okay. This is a free world and an open forum right? Both viewpoints should be respected whether or not we agree with one another. Can we not get past this difference for the greater good? Surely we can. I am willing-how about you?

You ladies have got to relax. You need to give me a tenny tiny bit of free expression, just a little bit is all I ask. :D I have extremely modified my posting from the first one in which I listed scripture. That one I agree could be seen as breaking the rule of "over speaking my religion."

HOWEVER, in this case I was NOT preaching/proseltyzing-and you know it! You are a very smart woman and you know one little sentence does not = proseltyzing!

I just wanted to share in one sentence what got rid of the huge amount of guilt that I was feeling. If it were something I got out of a self-help book that would be okay. Well, for me and many others on this forum and in life, the Bible is a recognized self-help book, even if you don't recognize it as so. I know that there are many others that struggle with the huge amount of guilt about making the decision to go NC, a lot of these ladies are believers. One sentence does NOT constitute for "proseltyse or otherwise OVER-SPEAK OF YOUR RELIGION." And you know it!

Just one sentence does NOT constitute for "gratuitous religious content". And you know it!

"Mentioning of God, Christianity, etc., continues. THE MENTIONING OF TEXT FROM ANY BELIEF SYSTEM IS OVER-SPEAKING, AND IS NOT ALLOWED." (this exact rule that they say I broke does not even exist)

You are gaslighting me! I have thought did I miss something? Where in the rules does it say that? I looked and looked and looked some more and did not find this rule. You NEED to add the above to the Code of Conduct. I just checked it and it is NOT there. So according to your own rules I am NOT in violation. :shock:

I and others have asked Danu to update the Code of Conduct because she herself admits "the code is unclear". You need to make it very clear. How come you don't add this rule? How come you don't add that any form of God, Son, Jesus, is not allowed? Why not be clear so we know exactly what not to say on this "open" forum? I can NOT be in violation of a rule that does not exist!

Here is an example of one of my post (only the words in green are from my original post) and the only mention of God in it. This is not apart of this original e-mail, but it shows you how I spoke on the forum & gives an example of how they are trying to portray me as someone who "over speaks their religion".

Again thank you so very, very much for starting this thread. It really solidified things for me. Love the boat story from X (this part is not apart of my original post, but it is what I was responding to. The boat story is where a flood comes and a man is warned by the tv to evacuate, then the radio, people drive by and encourage the man to leave to safety with them and he refuses, then a boat comes by to rescue him and he refuses, then at last a helicopter, and he still refuses. When he dies and goes to heaven he asks St Peter, why didn't God come to rescue him? And St. Peter says, what do you mean? God sent the TV message, radio message, someone that drove by to pick you up, someone on a boat to get you and someone on a helicopter) . I am with you all, let's climb in the boat and sail away from the narcissistic sinking past. That was nm's home not ours. Our beautiful, loving, peaceful, joy filled home awaits just over the horizon under the Son.

Have an awesome blessed weekend!


Hi Soaring Dove, hope you're well!

Just a quick heads up to say we edited your post to remove the reference to The Son - it was just a bit against the guidelines.

All best, Danu

Why is it okay to use God's name in vain on this forum? That hurts many of us and is putting a religion down. That is breaking your own rule, yet it is not being inforced, why not?

"In practice, this means that you are absolutely free to share your beliefs, no matter what they are, once they're legal. Also that you will not be criticised for those beliefs, or told they're evil etc."

You don't have the above mentioned rule in your code of conduct so I broke no rule. The fact that your own rule says that "I am absolutely free to share my/your beliefs, no matter what they are, once they're legal (which I have proven that mine are). Also that you will not be criticised for those beliefs" means that YOU are breaking the rules, not me.

"I know that many (most?) religion firmly believe that they're the only right one, and that's fine too. But I ask that you leave that at the door when you come in here. At least, obviously you'll still think/believe/know that your religion is the right one, but for the purposes of discussion on this forum I ask that you respond to others' religions/beliefs as if they're equally valid" -- taken directly from Danu's Code of Conduct.

I didn't put anyone's religion down so I broke no rule.

"(Or if you don't like it, don't respond to the post, and just ignore it.)"-- taken directly from Danu's Code of Conduct.

How come your own rule is NOT being inforced? What about freedom of speech?

"SHARING FAITH/RELIGION: Bear in mind that this forum is for people of all faiths and none. Please respect that by not insisting that your faith/religion is the right one. By all means feel free to discuss what religion you are where it's relevant, e.g. to discuss how your religion affects your situation with your Narcissistic Mother, but do not proselytise. This comes back to RESPECT."-- taken directly from Danu's Code of Conduct.

Again one sentence does not constitute "proselytizing", so I did NOT break a rule.

In fact, I was discussing how this one sentence got rid of the huge guilt I was feeling regarding going NC with the nm. So you are breaking this rule by not letting me share in just one sentence!

" So, for example, if somebody says she just can't forgive her NM, don't tell her that Christianity says you have to forgive, so she should. Likewise, if somebody who says she's Christian says she's struggling with forgiving, but feels she needs to as her religion asks for it, then don't post that she shouldn't worry about it, that Christianity is wrong to say that. In each case, either meet the poster where she is, or if that's not possible, then don't respond." -- taken directly from Danu's Code of Conduct.

Okay, here it says we can talk about our Christianity. So I very briefly did in one sentence. Again, you are breaking your own rule by not letting me share!

Again, You need to give me a tenny tiny bit of free expression, just a little bit is all I ask.

Both viewpoints should be respected whether or not we agree with one another. Can we not get past this difference for the greater good? Surely we can. I am willing-how about you?

(after I got another e-mail gaslighting me I sent the next one)


As stated before, one little sentence does not = proseltyzing andyou said that we are not alloud to share any religious text at all what so ever-where does it say that in the Code of Conduct. I searched and did not find that rule?

What I did find is how we are not supose to put any body's religion down, which I did not and I found this in the Spiritual section if I am correct:

"(Or if you don't like it, don't respond to the post, and just ignore it)"-- taken directly from Danu's Code of Conduct.

Why can't you follow your own rule?

There is a lot of great info on NM's and the support and advice from the other women is awesome, but the forum is not "open & safe". I have been deeply hurt by this fact. I am not the only one who has been harassed. You are trying to make it my problem which it is not because the Code is not clear as Danu herself has said. The rule you say I broke does not even exist and you refuse to add it to the Code-this is very bizzare!

Danu has been asked by others, including myself, several times to update the code to make it clear that no mention of God in any form, and no mention of religious text in any form be allowed. To be very clear on what we can and can not say on the forum, but she refuses to update the code, why? If this issue comes up again and again, why not make the rules very clear, unless she does not want to be honest in fear that she will lose a lot of the members she already has and doesn't want to turn anyone else away from being open and honest about where she stands on giving any positive mention to God. It's crazy because there are other posts that mention God and they are not deleted, very confusing. I pointed this out and she still refuses to update the code to clear things up. I don't know why I have a huge neon target on my back.

You need to update your Code so that people can make an informed decision before joining and forming friendships. You and Danu run the forum, but you are NOT the forum. There is difinately a mini-god complex going on in running the forum. The friendships that I have formed here is what keeps me coming back inspite of the harassment that I am receiving from you. I tried so very hard to "fit in", but you refuse to give me not even one little sentence of free expression with my own experiences-wasn't even commenting on anyone elses experience. I am truly trying my very best and some posts you may have noticed I don't mention God at all. I am holding back as much as I possible can, but there are times with my own experiences where my conscious will not let me NOT give credit to my Savior. You see, no you don't see, but Jesus has saved me in so many ways. I wish you two would give me just a tiny bit of free expression when I need to share my own experience. This would be the right thing to do. Wont you please see that and meet me part way?

Re: Board warning issued

Sent: Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:06 am 
From:LightTo: soaring dove


You've been spoken to so many times about this.

Because you've now received two warnings, it's a VERY good idea to avoid further religious content in posts altogether. That's what I do in 100% of my posts, as do other members. As a result, none of us have warnings racked up. It's a good idea for you to do the same, I think, in order to preserve your membership.

If you aren't willing to do this, you don't have to. But there's some risk involved, of course. I prefer no risk, myself.


I logged on the DONM forum and found that I have been Permanently banned for mentioning GOD in my posts. It was either when I wrote Free At Last! Free At Last! Thank God Almighty I am Free at Last! (I don't think this is the one because I wrote it before and nothing happened) or the other post when I said if we are open to it God will send us loving people to fill the void of hurtful people like NM & NSis. No preaching nothing more than what others have wrote on the forum. Others can mention God, but I can not this is crazy narcissistic behavior. They are persecuting me because I am a Christian, you now know it, I know it, and if they are honest with themselves they know it too! Pray that someone can help Danu see that she is being abusive. I have given her so much time and chances to make this horrible situation right and instead it keeps getting worse and worse. This is only a sample of the abuse that took place behind closed doors, and below is just a couple more and there is still more, but with these I think for those that are open to the truth will see it and those that aren't never will, until maybe it happens to them!

Danu got mad when I suggested that the voice that told her to sing was from her loving Creator (non-specific religious form of God which is widely excepted as the PC thing to say) she wrote:

"when I explained about my singing experience, it wasn't appropriate for you to tell me, for example, that that was a mesage from my Creator. You don't know that. And I know you genuinely believe it was, but you must realise that you don't know that I'm in a position to hear that. I might be an atheist who doesn't believe in a Creator, for example. (I'm just using my own thread as an example - this is not about what I believe or don't believe.)"

In a post that was deleted and I was told that it was "inappropriate and wrong" to post it had to do when God saved my beautiful daughter and was told by Danu,

"Or, you asked what was wrong in saying the being able to sing thought was a message from my Creator. For all you know, I'm an atheist and don't believe in a creator. Or maybe it was Allah or Vishnu speaking to me. Or maybe it was my subconcious freeing itself from the NM shackles. The thing is, you can't assume anything about my beliefs, and shouldn't. (And nor should I, or anybody, about yours or anybody else's)."

"Your recent post about how your baby was saved by a miracle and your mother was stopped by snow was an act of God - that's also inappropriate. Many of our members would be believe your baby was saved by a combination of luck and good medical care, and the snow storm was just natural weather patterns."

Okay Danu what about the statement you said The thing is, you can't assume anything about my beliefs, and shouldn't. (And nor should I, or anybody, about yours or anybody else's)."

Do you see the contradiction? There is one set of rules for her, and a completely different set for others. What does that sound like to you? What is the definition of Narcissistic?

Below are the last two e-mails I sent to Danu awhile back (before Light took over to do her dirty work).


I know your job is very difficult overseeing the forum, but you must be fair. By your own admittance in an e-mail you sent me, the Code of Conduct, which I have read more than once, “obviously wasn’t clear enough.” I am very confussed. There are posts that have more "Christian talk" in them than the posts that I have written (excluding the first one that I had scripture in :) ). The ones that I said Creator, act of God, and most recent the mention of Son are deleted.

I did not put anyone’s religion down or call a person names as you mention in your Code of Conduct. You need to write that, no religious/spiritual expression of any kind will be allowed, and give examples (i.e. don’t give credit or reference to God, don’t mention the power of God, or the act of God, don’t mention any form of Him, Creator, Son, Holy Father, Heavenly Father, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Ala, Budda etc., no Christian expressions like Sister in Christ, no scripture ref or quotes. Error on the side of giving too many examples, so that there will be no more hurt feelings on both sides. Then to be fair you need to say the same about other religions/spiritual groups, no Universe is speaking to you, no Mother Nature, Earth Mother, kindred spirits, soul sisters. Looking forward to seeing your revised Code of Conduct.

(another separate e-mail)

Danu I do enjoy the forum and have benefited greatly from it, but it needs to be fair and everyone should be treated with the equal amount of respect regardless if you agree with them or not. You say that you want this forum to be a "safe" and an "open" forum, but open and safe for whom? It appears that it is open to bash God and his people, to use God's name in vain is allowed-those posts are not deleted. Where as the mere mention of "under the Son" is deleted.

This is an urgent matter and must be addressed NOW!

Something you said in a past e-mail really hurt me and I have been holding back in fear that you will get mad and ban me from the forum, but my God tells me to fear not, so here goes:

My daughter IS a miracle and no human can ever explain that one away. Nobody except my husband and I saw the huge pool of blood I woke up to that morning. My own life was at risk. The doctor could not even explain HOW a heartbeat was still possible with all the blood loss I had. He said; women have miscarried with far less blood loss than I. The doctor had a problem with accepting the miracle that was happening right in front of his face, so he offered his opinion of the 1% more thing. He also could not explain how the separation had healed without a noticeable trace. There was no medical intervention, just me on complete bed rest. For someone to say that my DD (dear daughter) being saved was due to; “a combination of luck and good medical care, medical phenomenon etc.," (is her opinion) I am not hurt by others opinions. As for “good medical care” there was none, our doctor told us there was “nothing medically that any doctor could do.” To say that merely because you don’t agree with my answer to MY situation thus deeming it inappropriate is wrong, sorry but it is. What if I said her guardian angel was watching over her that day? You KNOW that would have been accepted and thus appropriate. Yet what if there was someone who didn’t believe in angels?

The snowstorm that prevented my NM’s (narcissistic mother's) plane from taking off, if I said “Mother Nature” prevented my NM’s plane from taking off THAT would have been accepted, and thus appropriate but an act of God is not?

Why is my opinion, especially on MY two experiences, less respected than others?

Why is it that I‘m NOT entitled to share my knowledge/opinion of what happened to MY body?

This was MY experience as I see it. Just the way others have their experiences and see it the way they think is right.

On your personal experience about I Sing, I cannot give you feedback (even though you admitted you didn’t know where it was coming from and it sounded like there was a question seeking an answer) on a situation you experienced, BUT you can tell me that how I experienced mine was "wrong/inappropriate" and not aloud on your forum.

How is this not censorship AND discrimination?

To say that my opinions/beliefs/answers/feelings/knowledge on MY own situations are inappropriate – feels like something my NM has done to me my entire life!

Again, you need to update your Code of Conduct, today, right now, so that it is clear just what will be allowed on this "open and safe" forum.

Danu has been asked several times from me, and from others that held a high position in her forum to update her Code of Conduct months ago before I even came to the forum and she refuses. From what others have told me Danu is justifying her actions and is not strong, humble, or honest enough to admit that she really did something wrong, which tells me and should tell you about her character. I pray that some day she will be willing to make this situation right between us. I have the faith about the size of a mustard seed that she will do right by me, and by others who are now in her forum and the future members that are mislead to join her unsafe forum, but I know with God all things are possible, she just has to be willing to let the Holy Spirit convict her on what she has done wrong. Like my narcissistic mother that was once in my life, I will always pray for her and Danu's salvation, but that is another topic entirely.

What do you think about the e-mails and Gaslighting that has taken place--do you see the Gaslighting in these e-mail accusations?

Although it seems like Danu's and my relationship was always adversarial, let me assure you it was not always that way. She is very well educated on all thing NM. She put a great website together which educates and informs about narcissism, very high praises for that and I will NEVER take that away from her ever. The forum is a great idea and I found much support from her as well as the other members. In fact Danu, and the great women of the forum encouraged me by saying that I was a great writer, which was something I never entertained because I did and still do have trouble in that area. She said that it was both her personal and professional opinion because she has taught writing to others. She validated the things & feelings I experienced with being a DONM. I trusted her so very much and when the attacks started to come I was so caught off guard. Because I wouldn't do as she demanded and stop mentioning God or any form of Him, she choose me as her personal moving target and scapegoat.
As with all true narcissists, their victims are left feeling like they did something wrong and that they are all alone. Praise God for the beautiful ladies from the forum who have validated what I have experienced is in fact "Classical Gaslighting, and horrible. " Not all these ladies are from the same religious background as myself. It is not just a religious thing, like Danu and Light are trying to make it out to be.

I thought about not posting these examples of persecution, discrimination, censorship, and Classical Gaslighting. You know how the enemy comes to bring doubts in your mind, no one will believe you, no good will come of this, etc. But I am reminded that sin should be brought out into the light. As a child I spent years covering up someone else's sin that he did against me. I was made to feel that I was wrong for exposing the truth, well not this time! That wicked spell only works once! It is not my job to make anyone believe the truth. All I need to do is present the truth and let others judge for themselves. It is just my job to pull back the curtain to reveal the Wicked Witch of Narcissism. I believe we have discovered a new form of narcissist, which is far harder to detect then the malignant narcissist. This is the Narcissist in Sheep's Clothing.


  1. Are you aware of how many NPD characteristics you are displaying via your post?

    Rewriting history
    Can't be said No to
    Character assassination

    That's just for starters.

    I had a lot of respect for you over at DoNM, but now I don't.

  2. nandncharles,
    Not a name I recognize? The fact that you once respected me tells me that up until now you valued what I had to say right? Since you are on the forum, then you know how I speak/post. I just wanted to be treated fairly and be permitted to do what others are permitted to do. I know you were surprised, like others have been to see that I have been falsely accused of breaking rules that do not even exist.
    The first time I told my NM how the monster abused me she didn't believe me either. I understand the truth can be hard to accept. It wasn't until my Aunt stuck up for me that NM then decided she was going to believe me and as you know from being on the forum she never confronted him and actually sat down to meals with him. It is to bad that you don't want to believe me. It is a horrible fact I know. However, others that know how long these attacks have been going on and what was said do believe me. My family, friends, and especially God believe me. I stand by my Post. Like I said before, the blue quotes are what D. & L. said to me. That is their exact words copied from their wicked e-mails. This is a fact and it is not "rewriting history". You did not see these attacks because they happened behind close doors (PM), just like in all kinds of abuse it happens where there are no witnesses, and all you know is that these ladies are well educated, insightful, supportive, etc -- which they are and I never said they weren't, and I will NEVER take that away from them, but they are also abusive gaslighters. My own Sisters do not want to face the entire truth about our wicked NM who abused them first hand, and the truth is hard to accept I know that myself. But the truth is the truth and wrong is wrong. I am NOT the only person that these ladies have hurt, and I know I will not be the last. The fact is their Code of Conduct is misleading people into a trap which I have demonstrated in the post. Other members have asked D. several times to make the code clear and she refuses, why? They held very high positions in her forum are very intelligent, insightful well-respected, talented and have told me that they have had problems with D. for the very same thing. Other members that know about the abuse I received are regular members. As much as my flesh is tempted to tell you who they are and what they said on this matter I can not. I will not. I promised that I would keep their identity confidential. They will tell their stories in their time. I am so sorry you are hurt by this information. If I kept this truth to myself, as I was tempted to do, then others will be hurt and I can not keep secret something that I KNOW hurts others. Like I said I am not the only one this has happened to. Some day you too will know the truth, until then God bless.

  3. First of all, nothing you wrote "hurt" me. That I no longer respect you doesn't "hurt" me. What I see is a very damaged human being (you) who needs far more psychological help than creating a blog site and publicizing private messages in order to justify your anger that you weren't allowed to go All Jesus All the Time on a non-religious forum. There is nothing misleading about the Code of Conduct, it's straightforward to those who are not wearing their religion on their sleeves.

    There is just no way you could have missed that you had received a PM, it's so obvious a flag, it just can't be missed. That's where I realized you were revising the story line.

    In conclusion, I would like for you to ask yourself if what you have done is what Jesus would do. Is this how Christians act?

    People who are always shouting that they are telling nothing but the Truth usually turn out to be the most deceitful.

  4. Although I am tempted to delete your comments because (1) they are lies (2) of course I do not agree with them, I wont. Just because you disagree with what someone says (acknowledging God is responsible for a certain situation) doesn’t give you the right to censor someone and play mini god.

    Although you hide your identity and this name you are currently using is not recognizable to me or anyone else from the DONM forum, doesn’t make your claim that you are a member of the DONM not true. I have given you the benefit of the doubt - - can you not do the same?

    The fact that you once respected me and are now trying your best to paint me as something that I clearly am not is very deceitful on your part. Let’s assume for a moment what you are “now” saying about me is true and that as you put it “ I want to go ALL Jesus ALL the Time, and wear my religion on my sleeve”, then a person such as yourself would have NEVER given me any kind of respect in the first place. That kind of light that you speak of would have shone too brightly and you would have immediately turned away from it from the onset. Think for yourself and go with what YOU have seen with your own eyes. You know that I can modify how strongly I speak on my own blog compared to how I speak on someone else’s non-religious forum. You know and I know and most importantly God knows that I did not do anything more than what others are allowed to do. You know that not in all my posts/statements do I mention God, only where it applies to my experience as being a DONM. In the DONM there is a supportive and loving Sisterhood, however the ruler of the forum is abusive. Like in any dysfunctional family where the abusive parent singles out one of the children and discriminates and abuses her; the others instead of holding the abusive parent responsible for her evil behavior, says well that is not “my” experience, the rest of us are not treated this way, so you must have done “something” to deserve this abuse even though their own eyes tell them that their Sister did nothing wrong. To resolve the conflict in their own mind they have to ignore what they know to be true, what they have experienced with their own eyes and side with the abuser against their Sister. Therefore, to paint me as something that you know I am not is nothing less than dishonest on your part. The way I speak in my own life and on my own blog, where I have complete freedom to express myself, is different than how I spoke on the DONM forum, and you know it. If you want to have an open and honest discussion about the facts that I posted, then you are welcome to do so, but if is your intent to lie about things in order to try and discredit me then that of course will be evil and not be allowed.

  5. (continued from above) You said, “there is just no way you could have missed that you had received a PM, it’s so obvious a flag, it just can’t be be missed. That’s where I realized you were revising the story.” I know it is hard for someone like yourself who has tons of experience on a forum to believe that missing the PM is possible. You can’t even think of such a thing happening because you only want to see things through your eyes. I first found the website and clicked onto the forum. It was my first forum. Never had any experience with PMs. I thought I read about it some where on the forum that it had to do with personal emails, or the instant message thing. I have never texted someone either. I just pick up the phone if I want to talk to someone, or use personal e-mail. Not everyone is advanced as you are with the Internet stuff. I just started blogging as you know and if you take a look with your eyes wide open you will see that my blog structure is not up to par (I do not have a proper links page and do not know how to utilize all the options that are available). The fact that D. herself accepts this to be the truth, and because of this changed the way she responds to members post, “I have private messaged (PM) you, and you can find it at the upper left hand corner” should tell you that this is the truth. Thus using your own logic, now that you now that is the truth, then the rest must be the truth too even though you don’t want to believe that it is.

    For over 2000 years people have not wanted to admit that, Jesus did walk the Earth, He did create miracles, He was unjustly crucified, He did rise from the dead, He did fulfill prophesy and thus He is the Son of God and our Savior. They don’t want to face this fact because then, like now, makes them accountable to someone other than themselves. If you hold no one but yourself to be accountable to and you give yourself the power to determine what is right and what is wrong without holding it up to a higher standard, then you are making yourself, self-righteous. Setting aside my own integrity, my God would not let me say such things if they were not true. Forget what others think, I would fear Gods wrath upon me. If you read the Bible you would see that Jesus held Believers to a higher standard than non-believers. We Christians can whine about this, but anyone claiming to follow Christ MUST be held to a very high standard. It is for our own good as well as the good of others. Back to what I was saying before, non-believers then, as well as today, claim that Jesus never walked the Earth and that His life is just a made up story. Scientist that were once self-proclaimed strong atheists have set out to prove this lie from the devil and instead have been converted due to the overwhelming evidence that Jesus did walk the Earth, He did create miracles, He was unjustly crucified, He did rise from the dead, He did fulfill prophesy, and thus He is the Son of God and our Savior. Just because you refuse to believe the facts doesn’t make them less true. EVERY knee shall bow; EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord.

  6. For those whose comments didn't get approved:

    Here are the facts: Just because I don’t agree with a comment does not mean that I will delete it like others do. However, I will delete comments that refuse to discuss the issues and just want to be abusive.

    I don't have to host comments which I don't want to host and, no, it doesn't somehow reduce my credibility simply because your comment wasn't approved. I have some ability to perceive what certain types of comments are intended to be abusive rather than to be helpful. Those that offer lies and darkness rather than truth and light. I am following the Holy Spirit when I don't approve a comment. Deal with it.

    It should be obvious from the comments that did get approved you don’t have to agree with me to be allowed to comment. I have zero tolerance for enablers who are just secondary abusers themselves. I lie from the devil is that things are not black and white, wrong and right. This is not a case where which ice cream flavor is the best where there would be no right or wrong answer. If you don't get it, I'm sorry. It isn't my job to explain the obvious.

  7. nandncharles, What happened to your logic that if the PM thing was true then the rest must be true? Opps! Can't admit that you were wrong about this and that you could be wrong about the rest? True enablers will refuse to admit when they were wrong, so that they can stay loyal to the primary abuser. Instead of facing the fact that was just proven to you and you know it, you would rather pick up where D & L left off and verbally abuse me which I must put an end to.

    Just because as you put it, "[my] lack of technical savvy is not up to par and the parameters were set the way they were" did not stop you from identifying who you are.That was/is YOUR choice to remain hidden, not anyone else’s. Do not blame others for the choices YOU make. I understand why members who support me do not want to identify themselves, because that would make them the new target and scapegoat. For someone such as yourself who is clearly playing the role of the Golden Child has nothing to hide, because you will only receive praise from D & L for refusing to call a wrong, a wrong. Why not be brave and stop living in a cloak of darkness and secrecy?

    Enabling is as, Enabling does. Enablers are people who refuse to deal with the facts even though it is right in front of their faces. Sorry I did not want to go there with you, but if the enabling shoe fits you must wear it!

    The fact that Danu herself admitted that her own Code of Conduct could be clearer, other members agree that the code is confusing and the way that it is being enforced is inconsistent at best, (not to mention the clear documented gaslighting) and that people that hold a high position in her forum ask her to change her Code several times in regards to my case as well as those members who came BEFORE me and members who came AFTER me and make it very clear is lost on you.
    No matter how tempted I am to drop names to prove this point my conscious (The Holy Spirit) will not let me break their confidentiality. When they come forward to prove this point it must be up to them and between them and God.

  8. nandncharles,
    Although you verbally abused me with name-calling I will not do the same and I will not let those supporting me do the same back to you. Christians are called to Turn the Other Cheek. If I called you a spiteful name (and believe me my flesh was very tempted to do so), and if I allowed others to do my dirty work for me, then we would be trading hate for hate. Christians are called to a Higher Standard. We must answer to God. We are told to get angry, but sin not. Even though you verbally attacked me with the name-calling we cannot attack you. I do not wish to be your enemy. I do hope that you will realize that (1) you were wrong about the PM thing. (2) you were wrong about the "All Jesus All the time & wearing my religion on my sleeve portrayal. (3) It was your choice to remain hidden, not mine, so you were wrong about that as well. Since you were wrong about these three things, could you consider that you are also wrong about me lying about what happened at the DONM forum behind closed doors? It is not my intent to hurt you or any other members at the DONM forum. I just wanted to warn you that this leader that you put so much trust into, like I did, is not worthy of your trust and it is only a matter of time before she hurts another member. God bless nandncharles.

  9. I really don't give a damn what you think or feel.

  10. You deleted my comments and therefore, you are busy revising history. I rest my case.

  11. nandncharles, I see you STILL choose to hide in darkness. Deleting a verbally abusive comment is NOT revising history. You were wrong about the above (3) mentioned things and this is yet another thing you are wrong about. If you don't get it, I'm sorry. It isn't my job to explain the obvious. Your agenda is clear to EVERYONE reading that you do not want to deal with how you were proven wrong with your attacks against me, but would rather create a distraction in order to keep your delusion of your evil leader alive. I pray that her wicked spell over you will be broken and that someday you will be able to see the truth with your own eyes.

    I can no longer waste my time on someone who refuses to see how she has been wrong about me and does not have the strength to admit when she has been proven wrong over and over again. To error is human. To NEVER admit to it is narcissistic. The fact that others were not allowed to verbally abuse you in return escapes you. The only thing you are concerned about that YOUR abusive comments were deleted. You were publicly proven to be wrong on now (4) things. It is time to do some self inventory and stop being your wicked leader's personal attack dog with no mind of her own. This kind of behavior should be beneath you. There is a great article on the DONM forum about fleas and how a DONM can exhibit narcissistic traits -- I encourage you to read it and to be open to what it has to say. Since you hide in darkness and want to do nothing more than attack and be evil, then your comments will no longer be allowed here. With God all things are possible, so when there comes a day where you can admit that you were wrong (as has been proven above), then you will be welcomed back. Until then, I must put an end to your evil agenda.

  12. Soaring Dove, my sister-in-Christ, its time for no contact. You have been set free from NM, don't let Satan replace her with more bondage. He's winning. Although I totally, totally love and respect your intentions. Your precious spirit, energy, time, resources are better spent doing your heart's desire....glorifying Him. He will defend you friend...I'm learning that too. When Jesus stood before Pontius Pilate, or when he was in the Garden, he could have called 10,000 angels to defend him and change the circumstances, but he didn't even speak back to Pontius Pilate when he asked him. Because He knew He was in the Father's Will. There is no defense ever needed from that, sweetie, and I know that you know that too. Let go....let Him. Just a reminder, cuz I know that's truly what you want too. His Will.

    We know how well no contact works. Let's use the tools he's given us sweetie. Put the chains down and blog your sweet, precious, loved heart and fingers out girlfriend!!!

    In Him,
    your "wondering what happened and where you went to" friend.....

    Itreallyistrue/endofthrainbow from DONM Forum.

    Love you!

  13. treallyistrue/endofthrainbow and Sister in Christ
    Before I forget, thank you for daring to step forward and I pray that you will not receive unfair treatment for doing so from "the Wicked Queen". Nice to hear from you again! I do miss the members at DONM who supported, encouraged, inspired, and uplifted me & helped me along this healing journey (and I am not just referring to fellow Christians!). I miss those who really know who I am, that I desire to do His will and that I would NOT make up lies because our Heavenly Father would not approve to say the least. Let the fellow Sisters know I said, fear not! Keep representing! Don't compromise who you are, especially when there is no rule saying you can't mention God at all! And as Jesus said, they will know that you are mine, by your love for one another, so support one another!

    Totally get what you said, and believe me I prayed long and hard on whether or not I should share what had happened to me behind closed doors @ the DONM forum. A very wise woman from the blog, narcissists sucks,
    told me that "forums suck" too, because of the mini godlike mentality that the founders/moderators exhibit with their lack of accountability (only the quote is what she actually said the rest was the summary of our conversation on why all forums are unsafe).

    Another wise woman asked me recently, now that some time has passed, knowing what you know "now" about the lack of accountability, the persecution you experienced for being a Christian, and the gaslighting, etc., would you still join a forum? Initially my first reaction would be, no way! Anna was right, forums suck! Then I am quickly reminded of people such as yourself who are/were so kind, supportive, loving, helpful, etc., that I have to say it was well worth it! In addition, if I had read peoples blogs describing what they had experienced in a certain forum, and had the chance to be informed before I joined and "let the buyer beware". I would have prayed about the risk vs. reward and IF I joined I would have hung back in the background to see how Christians were treated, like in the DONM forum where certain Christians for mentioning God will be PM and told that they must stop mentioning God & were breaking a rule that does not exist. I would also check out to see if people were treated equally, and how are opposing views handled, and if there is one standard for the leaders and one standard for the members. When I was at this said forum, I noticed that @ that time less than 10% of the total members were actually active participants. I also noticed that there was a thread speaking to those who were just listening & not participating which I think was posted way before I even joined, if I recall correctly? Anyway it left a question in my mind, why are less than 10% of the members actively participating? Why are they so hesitant in posting & joining the conversation?

    As you will notice with each new article/post on this blog, the dust is being shaken off!

    God bless you and yours my friend. We are so very blessed to be His kids and have so very much to be thankful for during these Holidays!

  14. A lot of those supposed support forums are like this:

  15. Soaring Dove,

    Thank you for posting this.

    Two nights ago, I posted my story on the DONM forums where I was a brand-new member of just a few days. The next morning I woke up and accessed the website to find out I'd been banned. I racked my brains to try to figure out what I could possibly have said wrong and the only thing I could come up with was that I'd mentioned God briefly once in a way that might have been against the rules as stated. But what recovery forum would permaban somebody for one infraction? Couldn't they see that this was only perpetuating the hurt that had already been inflicted on the person by her family? Ever heard of a MOD NOTE?

    I emailed them and haven't yet received a response--and 36 hours seems like a long time to wait for an "Oh, shoot, we're sorry! We were trying to ban some spammers and caught you by accident." I want to believe the best and that this was all some sort of mistake, but it really hurt me. I'm trying to face the possibility that it may not have been a mistake, so that I'm emotionally prepared if this proves to be the case.

    So I googled "banned from 'daughters of narcissistic mothers'" and got this post. If my experience turns out to be what I fear it might turn out to be, it's a relief to know I'm not the only one. You don't have to publish this comment--in fact, it would probably be better if you didn't, since I don't have all the facts yet (and I'll let you know when I do). I just wanted to thank you for having written this.

  16. Update:

    They never responded to my messages. I contacted them several times, from different accounts in case the spam filter took one out. I did call their attention to their disingenuity, and they gave me nought but radio silence. Guess I'm joining you in the "mistreated and banned" corner. Let's be friends!

  17. First and foremost I must ask for your forgiveness. I did not know that you & confederaterebel had responded to this post. I need to get H to help me figure out how to get blogger to notify me when a new comment is added.

    confederatrebel, I will check out your link.

    Wow Tiger! You are the reason I made the Gaslighting post. Prophecy fulfilled. I encourage you not to be silent and to share your event of persecution. May I encourage you to "Write a Wrong" by starting your own blog and sharing your situation, so that others can be warned. Please know that we are not alone. There are others that I pray will have the strength you have and come forward to expose this Narcissist in Sheep's Clothing before she hurts anyone else. To me, the Narcissist in Sheep's Clothing is the worst kind of N there is, I think it even trumps the NM. Too bad forum Admins don't have to take the same Oath docs do, First do no harm. I know the pain you are going through and the self-doubt about breaking the rule -- however, don't fall into the Gaslighting trap. You can not break a rule that does not even exist!

    If the Evil Queen wants to say that members can not mention God on her forum, then have her be upfront and say that in her Code of Conduct. But instead she is wickedly deceptive and picks off Christians one by one by fulfilling her evil agenda of getting rid of Christians on her forum. Like a true N, the Evil Queen deemed you expendable & replaceable. This of course is a lie from hell. You are unique and important and your voice counts. I told myself I would not join another forum due to their mini-god like mentality and lack of accountability. However, I recently joined www.webofnarcissism.com and have found it a safe place to share. You can view their posts w/out having to join to see for yourself how people are treated there.

  18. Some interesting links I found:

    Danu, on an unrelated blog, talking about how horrible Christians are: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/a_few_novel_excuses_for_priest.php#comment-2281677

    A negative review of the DONM forums by another user: http://my.barnesandnoble.com/communityportal/Review.aspx?page=Review&reviewid=1204298

    I really am not normally a fan of spreading negativity, but I do think it's important to gather this information in one place. Danu's prejudice is very clear and she's allowing it to bias her against all religious people without stopping to get the whole story. As for that other link, I'm not sure of the writer's experience since she's sort of vague, but it sounds consistent with what you experienced... and I never even got a chance to explain/argue.

    The other thing I found interesting is that I never said I was Christian. I mentioned religion but never said either what religion I was raised in or what religion I adopted as an adult.

    I do have a blog but it's on LiveJournal and not spidered by Google. I can't rule out the idea of starting one on another site but so far haven't.

    Since getting banned from the DONM forums, I branched out to looking at general emotional abuse sites as well as Web of Narcissism and others, but I'm still trying to figure out where to dig in.

  19. Tiger had I known that Danu felt this way about all religious people, or even just focusing her hateful energy towards Christians, or singled out any other group w/her hateful speach, I would NEVER had joined the DONM forum. The DONM forum members must be warned about how Danu truly feels towards ALL Believers. Present the facts and let the Buyer Beware there is a Narcissist in Sheep's Clothing who runs the DONM forum. God warned us that in the last days there would be false leaders who will disguise themselves in sheep's clothing to lead the sheep astray. A person who knows how it feels to be hurt now chooses to hurt innocent others just because they believe in God. Attacking those who do not think like you do, what does that sound like to you?

    Tiger, the fact that you did not identify yourself as a Christian means that she is against all Believers and not just Christians. God warned us that we would be persecuted, because He was persecuted & crucified. Count it as an Honor to be Banned for being a Christian/Believer @ the DONM forum.

    If you want to share your LiveJournal I will list it in the next post.

    Again I am so very sorry you were treated horribly by the Evil Queen, at the DONM forum.

  20. I wrote a post in my own blog about it here: http://finding-helena.livejournal.com/742117.html